last ditch poor man's sniper rifle

[onceabull]

BruceB&Jester_1: spot on with your thinking,but for the fun factor involved.. here's a sort of "blind pig" story...We had our elk camp this fall about 60-70 yds from where a form.emp.of mine (and sometimes Gunshow partner) camped with his SIL and twin grandkids just old enough for their first big game tags.. natch,the kids can't wait to show off their rifles.. Young lady had a Stevens 200 in 243 W, and her brother had some mdl of sav.110 in 25/06(tupperware stock,pre-Accutrigger).. Daddy found both in separate pawnshops while vacationing in midAugust.. $90 for the 243W, $120 for the 25/06..have heard people say that those rifles will shoot right with anything else out of the box that's priced within $100...Don't personally know anyone with the Marlin Bolter to query... Onceabull

[Bloodman14]

Reading material addition; The 'Ashes' series, by William W. Johnstone.

[JesterGrin_1]

BruceB&Jester_1: spot on with your thinking,but for the fun factor involved.. here's a sort of "blind pig" story...We had our elk camp this fall about 60-70 yds from where a form.emp.of mine (and sometimes Gunshow partner) camped with his SIL and twin grandkids just old enough for their first big game tags.. natch,the kids can't wait to show off their rifles.. Young lady had a Stevens 200 in 243 W, and her brother had some mdl of sav.110 in 25/06(tupperware stock,pre-Accutrigger).. Daddy found both in separate pawnshops while vacationing in midAugust.. $90 for the 243W, $120 for the 25/06..have heard people say that those rifles will shoot right with anything else out of the box that's priced within $100...Don't personally know anyone with the Marlin Bolter to query... Onceabull

I have the Marlin XL-7 in 30-06 that if I even spend twice the money for another rifle it might shoot as well as the Marlin but I do not think so. I purchased the Marlin as a rifle that I would not be afraid to scratch up while hunting in south Texas in all of the cactus and Mesquete thorn trees and so on and so forth. But I found that it will shoot better than my Remington 700 BDL as well as my Weatherby and at less than $3OO.oo for the Marlin it just can not be beat. Out of the box other than cleaning it made groups of 3/4 of an inch and less at 100 yards.

[StarMetal]

I have the Marlin XL-7 in 30-06 that if I even spend twice the money for another rifle it might shoot as well as the Marlin but I do not think so. I purchased the Marlin as a rifle that I would not be afraid to scratch up while hunting in south Texas in all of the cactus and Mesquete thorn trees and so on and so forth. But I found that it will shoot better than my Remington 700 BDL as well as my Weatherby and at less than $3OO.oo for the Marlin it just can not be beat. Out of the box other than cleaning it made groups of 3/4 of an inch and less at 100 yards.

Jester,

Thanks for the info on the Marlin rifle. I was curious as to how they shot. Not many people talk about them. You're right, they probably are just as good as anything out there.

Have you shot cast from it yet?

Joe

[JesterGrin_1]

Sorry to say Joe no I have not had a chance to shoot cast through it as of yet. I have loaded it for this hunting season with Hornady 165Gr SST with 55.5Gr of IMR-4350 in a Remington case with a Wolf LRP for the 30-06. This was just for group to find a load that it would shoot well with as time was short for Deer Season. And I have to add what is wild is this group was only the 9th 10th and 11th shot out of the brand new barrel. So as I shoot it more I think the groups will shrink a bit.


After Deer Season is over I plan to use some Cast 311284 210Gr slugs in it.


The WILD part is that I am really thinking about another Marlin XL-7 in 30-06 that will only see cast.

[Mel-4857]

Check out 303 British.com. An article there on making a scope mount out of angle iron. Mel

[Frank46]

How about "alas babylon" . Frank

[35 Whelen]

I understand the point about buying one of the abundant commercial rifles for a last ditch rifle, but personally, I cannot imagine a "last ditch rifle" that didn't have open sights for backup. I suppose a person could mount sights on said rifles, but then is that much different than mounting a scope on a rifle that already has sights?
My last ditch rifle is (was) a Mauser FR-8. It's now a Scout rifle complete with a Burris 2.75X forward mounted scope and backup sights consisting of an all steel Redfield micrometer sight and a Patridge front blade.
35W

[dualsport]

As I mentioned I have an old BDL in 7mm Rem Mag. I think I've asked this somewhere here before, but isn't the current standard sniper rifle based on this same action? (I may be confusing the nomenclature-M24 or M40?) I'm talking about the 7.62 version. If so, why do they use the long action vs. a short? I guess I can assume that the Remington 700 has proved to be highly trouble free in this role?? Any of you guys used one in the military? Issues? Heard stories? I get reviews from my son who used everything But the 7.62 in Iraq. While I'm asking so many questions, how do I speed up the lock time on a basic Mauser 98 type without affecting reliability or durability?

[flounderman]

you can speed up the lock time with a wolff heavy spring, or if you want the cheap way, pull the bolt apart, remove the spring, maybe stretch it a little and bush the fireing pin until there is just enough room for the spring to compress, on cocking. if you can assemble the fireing pin, it has enough room to compress on cocking. you can see how much bushing you can use by pushing the bolt shroud and compressing the spring. however much the part you have to turn to take off clears the cocking piece, that's how much space you can take up with a bushing.

[1Shirt]

Have been lurking on this thread for awhile, and have to add my two cents now I guess. As far as milsurps, think it hard to beat Mosins, either long or short, and as issue. Own one of each. Both rough as a cob, both have rough bbls, and both will stay in or under 3" at 100 with fairly heavy (1800-2000fps) cast loads with blt wts. from 150 thru 200 gr. Not pertty for sure, but at less than 100.00 they are just fine. As far as commercial, I picked up one of the Stevens in 308 w/the gray plastic stocks, and with a cheap 3x9 scope, the darn thing will hold at an inch at a hundred with J blts, and in the 1 1/2" with most cast at around 1800 or so. It is just the old 110 Sav. with a Stevens name. Lousy trigger thou. Just finished watching Enemy at the Gate again, so the Mosin kind of rings right as a result for me at least today. Of course, my K-31, and my Sweeds, come pretty close in the poor mans sniper catagory. Was listening to a talk radio show a couple of weeks ago and the question was what is the best investment that you can make in the current economy. The answer was "canned food and ammo". Food for thought for sure.
1Shirt!

[Cooleemee Edd]

I am turning one of my .303 British Enfields into a "sniper rifle," i.e., hunting rifle with a bi-pod. I am having a good time with my lead-bullet handloads. This thing gets DIRTY fast!!

I want to know about paper-patching. Can someone help me out? (NO! Don't dare ask me "Which way did you come in?"!)

[mike in co]

As I mentioned I have an old BDL in 7mm Rem Mag. I think I've asked this somewhere here before, but isn't the current standard sniper rifle based on this same action? (I may be confusing the nomenclature-M24 or M40?) I'm talking about the 7.62 version. If so, why do they use the long action vs. a short? I guess I can assume that the Remington 700 has proved to be highly trouble free in this role?? Any of you guys used one in the military? Issues? Heard stories? I get reviews from my son who used everything But the 7.62 in Iraq. While I'm asking so many questions, how do I speed up the lock time on a basic Mauser 98 type without affecting reliability or durability?

depends on WHO'S sniper rifle you are talking about.

the SEAL's just went to accuracy international rifles.

i think most the rest are shooting some form of a rem 700....tho there are the armalite ar10's and knight's sr25's and sr12's....oh and the barrett's

[mike in co]

the operative word here is sniper.....not last ditich rifle.

a sniper rifle today, needs to have a reasonable scope, and better than average accuracy.

so we need an inexpensive accurate rifle that can mount a scope.


for the bucks, hands down in todays( yesterdays) milsurplus market: the swiss k31.

i have never seen a bad shooting k31...i own four and lost to a bunch more two weeks ago shooting my 98 7.62x51(308 win).

these used to be $100 or less........sorry to say but now they are $300 or more...but if you have one of the $100 rifles...make it a sniper easily.

the scope mount from st marie graphics( graf and sons) is about 65 plus $20 for rings.

now add a scope of your choice.

most of mine have 4x weaver steel tube marksman's

as a sniper scope you need modern coatings to get better low lite picture.

so that cost is up to you....lots of modern 3-9's/4-12's would be ideal.

from this point we can look at other rifles...but either the costs go up or the accuracy goes down.


m39's...great but not cheap. best with a side mounted scope..not a long eye relief rear sight mount.
20"mn( any..44, 38,59...) low cost, but need the side mount to be a solid reliable sniper.
91/30, 91......slow fire ok, but they tend to heat up and shots start to drift with that long thin bbl.

any 98 mauser(98's 24's 44's 27's etc)...drill and tap, bend the bolt, bed in the original stcok.....308, 8mm both work

96/38 swede.....again drill and tap....the swede's were ahead of thier time....a 140 6.5 will work very well for a long distance......i saw an excellent this weekend,,,,but it was 300 bucks.

03a3/p14/3040......an 03 runs 400 or more today....get a sporter for 250...a deal for this subject.


remember that a sniper rifle has to be reliable and accurate........
simple bedding, a great solid mount and a reliable consistant scope...the ammo is up to you.

the k31 works out this way for me:
rifle: $79(maybe 85 with tax)
scope mount: $65 (72 with shipping)
rings $20(shipped above)
scope...... $30 weaver 4x, $80 weaver 6x, $125 weaver 4-12
these are all daytime scopes, not low light...so a variable in cost.

so my last ditch SNIPER is $207........and fits reliable and accurate.

i load my own but the swiss milsurplus ammo is still reasonably priced.

for a common family of ammo...go with a 308 98 or commercial.....

while 30'06 is still the most popular round in the usa...its in stores only not in active mil use.

mike in co

[sheepdog]

A mosin nagant with a cheap side scope mount and a little homemade trigger job can be a dang nice setup for the economically handicapped.

[35 Whelen]

As I mentioned I have an old BDL in 7mm Rem Mag. I think I've asked this somewhere here before, but isn't the current standard sniper rifle based on this same action? (I may be confusing the nomenclature-M24 or M40?) I'm talking about the 7.62 version. If so, why do they use the long action vs. a short? I guess I can assume that the Remington 700 has proved to be highly trouble free in this role?? Any of you guys used one in the military? Issues? Heard stories? I get reviews from my son who used everything But the 7.62 in Iraq. While I'm asking so many questions, how do I speed up the lock time on a basic Mauser 98 type without affecting reliability or durability?

Good stuff here. A simple way to speed the lock time (and I did it myself) is to remove the firing pin and lighten it. The firing pin in mine was flat in the midsection so I took a Dremel tool with one of those thin abrasive metal cutting wheels and ground slots in the firing pin. Anything at all to remove metal and lighten the firing pin will speed locktime.

I own a few Mosins and used to own alot more. I though they'd make good last ditch rifles, but for my tastes they're just too rough. I know it's minor, but I hate the fact that you can't load 5 rds. in the magazine and close the bolt over them. The magazine truly has a capacity of only 4 rounds. Also, in my experience those huge rims have a tendency to hang on one another causing jams. But, to each his own.

35W

[Bret4207]

[QUOTE=BruceB;721624][QUOTE=dualsport; "Long ago I read Ahern's entire "Survialist" series, Orwell's '1984' and more recently "Unintended Consequences". Maybe it's affecting my thinking....."

You're far from alone in reading that sort of literature!

Some excellent older books with very strong survival themes are (thread drift warning):

-Malevil

-Down to a Sunless Sea

-No Blade of Grass

-On the Beach (wherein NOBODY survives)

-Lucifer's Hammer

....anyone else care to chime in? It's time for me to re-read some of these.

Oh, and I agree with the fun factor associated with projects such as the one on this thread![/QUOTE]

Lucifers Hammer and Alas, Babylon are my two favorites. I can tell you to avoid "Partiots, surviving the coming collapse" - a completely unrealistic story where the heros are superhuman people with unbelievable foresight and god like character that never, ever make a mistake. Very disappointing, but great if you like lots of gear, gear, gear. Another decent, but not great recent one is "A world made by hand". Not bad at all, but darn sure not a great book. There are a bunch of other okay ones out there. "The Survivalist" series (dated, the USSR was still around), "From the ashes" (another one where the heros never fail-ever). THe problem I find with most of these is they are written at about the 10th grade reading level. Give me Tom Clancy or WEB Griffith character/plot development and it would help. IT's like the "Left Behind" series- great idea, lousy writing.

[Three44s]

Red Dawn


Three 44s

[docone31]

Farnhems Freehold

[lurch]

The Left Behind series:

Yep, good message, mediocre writing and an abysmal grasp of all things firearms... Still a good read though.