My Whitworth

[wgr]

it takes an evil man to post that. i want one

[Col4570]

A standard Bullet for my Euro arms pattern 1853 Enfield Rifle against the Hollow Nosed Whitworth Bullet.It was necessary to swage down the Whit Bullet to .568.

[Col4570]

A Batch of Bullets for the Whitworth

[Red River Rick]

Something to ponder..............

540 grain, 0.440 across the flats, 1.350" OAL, 1 - 20" twist. Cast with 97/1.5/1.5.

RRR

Attachment 197066

[Kitika]

Did you make that Rick? How does it shoot?

[Buckshot]

..............Nice looking bit of work there Rick. Was that done with a plunge EDM setup? Years ago there was an outfit that had made a repo Spenser carbine, and some other stuff, along with a mould for the Whitworth. However, their iteration had a mild boat tail. Possibly there to help in loading? In any event I was working with a guy in Alabama who had a Whitworth and who'd bought the mould I spoke of. He offered to send me 20 of them for the shipping which I was glad to do.

Upon receipt of the slugs I straightaway tried one in the muzzle of my Whitworth rifle. The slugs provided were a bit of a somewhat loose fit in the bore. Loose enough for me to think that paper patching them might have had some benefit. I never bothered as only having 20 would have only made the barest beginning of see what they would do, so I never bothered. The slugs he provided weighed 560 grs, if I recall after all this time. I believe the loose fit was due to the fact that the hex form was blurred enough to allow them to be cast in (and more importantly) allowed the 2 blocks to move apart to release the slug

Not too long after that I ended up buying a Walnut Hill swage press from Richard Corbin and a set of swage dies to produce a .443" slug for paper patching.



The patched ones on the left are 530gr HP with a shallow cup base. Those on the right were 560gr slugs, which I decided I didn't need to patch up and shoot as the 530gr slugs produced enough excitement to keep me satisfied

...............Buckshot

[Red River Rick]

Kitika:

Yes, I machined the mould.

Sadly, I haven’t had a chance to get out to the range to test out this bullet, hopefully soon. I too, am curious to see how well they’ll shoot.

Two of the test rifles that’ll I’ll be using are original Whitworth Rifles. One is Whitworth Sporter and the other a Whitworth Match. The other two are a Parker-Hale Whitworth and a new Pedersoli Whitworth.

Buckshot:

The mould was machined on a 4 axis CNC machining center, in conjunction with some powerful CAD/CAM software.

It took some thinking and few prototypes before I was satisfied with the end result. It turned out far better than I had anticipated.

Paper will tell real story weather or not it was all worth the effort.

RRR

[Pavia]

I recently picked up a Whitworth from DGW. It's a Navy Arms marked Pedersoli Parker Hale Whitworth made in 2015 (well proofed in 2015 anyway). I've been getting excellent results with the Lyman 457121 PH in pure lead sized .450 or .448, pan lubed with beeswax/olive oil, and followed by a lubed 45 felt wad. Sizing to .448 seems to load about perfect without having to man-handle the seating of the bullet.

I also have high hopes for the Lyman 457132 Postell bullet. They are tougher for me to size down in my Lyman 4500 sizer. Pure lead deforms when trying to go past .452, as this bullet drops from my mold at .457.

I'm trying 30-1 lead for a harder bullet and stepping down the sizing of the 457132 (.454 then .452 then .450) to limit deforming.

Another bullet I will try is the Lyman 457671. This 470gr bullet is a Gas Check design, but I got the mold real cheap and I don't think the Whitworth cares if I don't use a GC. The shape looks very similar to the bullets shown in this thread.

80gr of FFg Goex seems to be the sweet spot for me at the range...

All the best. Great thread!

[Pavia]

Kitika:

Yes, I machined the mould.

Sadly, I haven’t had a chance to get out to the range to test out this bullet, hopefully soon. I too, am curious to see how well they’ll shoot.

Two of the test rifles that’ll I’ll be using are original Whitworth Rifles. One is Whitworth Sporter and the other a Whitworth Match. The other two are a Parker-Hale Whitworth and a new Pedersoli Whitworth.

Buckshot:

The mould was machined on a 4 axis CNC machining center, in conjunction with some powerful CAD/CAM software.

It took some thinking and few prototypes before I was satisfied with the end result. It turned out far better than I had anticipated.

Paper will tell real story weather or not it was all worth the effort.

RRR

Looking forward to a successful test and hopefully production!

[Buckshot]

[QUOTE=Pavia;4072405]I recently picked up a Whitworth from DGW. It's a Navy Arms marked Pedersoli Parker Hale Whitworth made in 2015 (well proofed in 2015 anyway). I've been getting excellent results with the Lyman 457121 PH in pure lead sized .450 or .448, pan lubed with beeswax/olive oil, and followed by a lubed 45 felt wad. Sizing to .448 seems to load about perfect without having to man-handle the seating of the bullet.

I also have high hopes for the Lyman 457132 Postell bullet. They are tougher for me to size down in my Lyman 4500 sizer. Pure lead deforms when trying to go past .452, as this bullet drops from my mold at .457.

I'm trying 30-1 lead for a harder bullet and stepping down the sizing of the 457132 (.454 then .452 then .450) to limit deforming.

..............Pavia, I'd suggest you use a Lee type push through type size die to do your sizing after the slugs have been lubed. They have a MUCH longer tapered leade into the sizing area, plus you're pushing from the base instead of the nose. The smallest in .45 cal they make is .451", and I've used them sized to that for both my Whitworth and the Rigby type match rifle (which has a .450" bore).

..............Buckshot

[Pavia]

[QUOTE=Buckshot;4074153]

I recently picked up a Whitworth from DGW. It's a Navy Arms marked Pedersoli Parker Hale Whitworth made in 2015 (well proofed in 2015 anyway). I've been getting excellent results with the Lyman 457121 PH in pure lead sized .450 or .448, pan lubed with beeswax/olive oil, and followed by a lubed 45 felt wad. Sizing to .448 seems to load about perfect without having to man-handle the seating of the bullet.

I also have high hopes for the Lyman 457132 Postell bullet. They are tougher for me to size down in my Lyman 4500 sizer. Pure lead deforms when trying to go past .452, as this bullet drops from my mold at .457.

I'm trying 30-1 lead for a harder bullet and stepping down the sizing of the 457132 (.454 then .452 then .450) to limit deforming.

..............Pavia, I'd suggest you use a Lee type push through type size die to do your sizing after the slugs have been lubed. They have a MUCH longer tapered leade into the sizing area, plus you're pushing from the base instead of the nose. The smallest in .45 cal they make is .451", and I've used them sized to that for both my Whitworth and the Rigby type match rifle (which has a .450" bore).

..............Buckshot

Thanks. I'll try the Lee. I was worried about the .451 sized, as even my .450 bullets can be tough to start. I heard you want to be able to easily seat the bullet on a Whitworth for best accuracy.

BTW... Do you have any insight on these swaged bullets?

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/510...ated-box-of-50

[Pavia]

I think I'm getting the Whitworth dialed in...

[Buckshot]

[QUOTE=Pavia;4074634]

BTW... Do you have any insight on these swaged bullets?

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/510...ated-box-of-50

............The bullet shown there on the Midway webpage was cast and not swagged. That's the same Whitworth type bullet I mentioned in my previous post as having a slight boat tail, and the design was blurred enough to allow use in a 2 block set of mould blocks. I think the company that was offering the moulds was also making Spenser carbines, and was located in New York state.



So far as I know the only effective mould for the Whitworth hexagonal boolit (to this date)* was make by a gentleman named Kranen. In the above photo the slug labeled Kranen came from one of his moulds.



The above is a couple photo's of his mould. The left photo shows the 3rd (rotating piece) face up in the center of the 2 large blocks. In the right photo we have a view of the back of the rotatable piece. This 3rd piece allowed the mould to be cut to much sharper dimensions, as it would rotate enough to help free it from the 2 main blocks.

Lest a person should get all worked up over NOT having a REAL Whitworth bullet or one like the above, just remember that by a very long shot, more cylindrical paper patched and grease grooved bullets exited the Whitworth's muzzle then ever did any 'Fitted Hex Slugs".

* We'll have wait for Red River Rick to give us a report on his mould.

.............Buckshot

[ResearchPress]

Something to ponder..............
540 grain, 0.440 across the flats, 1.350" OAL, 1 - 20" twist. Cast with 97/1.5/1.5.

Nice! Keen to see the results of this. Keep us informed.

David

[Pavia]

Great thread. So... I saw this Lyman mould on Amazon for $30 with free shipping. I jumped on it, as it was a Lyman mould. Number 457671. .457caliber GC with a similar profile as the 457132 Postell. Well, not quite, but hey... maybe better?

I figured $30 was worth the chance for finding a new Whitworth bullet. I just cast some 30-1 lead. Bullet dropped at around 482grs and .455 diameter. I'll lube and size it to .450 and give it a go. I don't think the GC base will be a problem. In fact it might ease loading for a muzzleloader. Of course I won't put a gas check on it...

Sorry for the crappy pic...

[Pavia]

The 30-1 Lyman mold 457671, as described above, did well. Three shots, plus one fouling shot in the bullseye at 50 yds. One lubed wad over 80grs FFg. Pan lubed with beeswax and olive oil and sized .450 in a Lyman 4500. I might try this bullet in pure lead, as it sized very easily in the Lyman press.

I need to address the sights on this Whitworth. Large front sight, combined with a very deep v notch rear sight is not helping accuracy. I don't think General Sedgwick was sniped with these sights... lol. The peep sight mod in the first post looks good.

[woodbutcher]

Fascinating post.I`ll saddle up and ride along.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[Buckshot]

.............As seen above, I swapped out the original hooded 'Bead on a post' front sight.



For the rear I fabbed up a simple peep blade to replace the original military 'V' style with which the rifle was originally supplied. It DOES make a difference.

Accuracy at 50 yards may not tell the entire tale as those long heavy slugs out of a 20" twist could not be stable and still 'Hunting', out to 100 yards or more before settling down.

.............Buckshot

[Pavia]

Is that peep sight screwed on? Any tang sights fit?

[Buckshot]

The rear peep sight fits the original rear sight elevator and is a peep instead of the original "V" blade rear sight, and yes there is a screw on the end of the ladder that retained the original 'V' blade.

So far as a tang sight for this rifle you'd have to attach it's base to the wood behind the tang, as the tang isn't long enough to mount a sight on.

.............Buckshot