Awesome instructions, I just posted my issues with making wax stay in the lube groove by the pan lube method. Maybe this can render the whole issue moot. How long do you let the bullets dry or harden?
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Awesome instructions, I just posted my issues with making wax stay in the lube groove by the pan lube method. Maybe this can render the whole issue moot. How long do you let the bullets dry or harden?
Recluse, thanks for sharing your homemade bullet recipe.
Here's my experience and some of my observations:
I purchased a can of JPW from Lowes' for $5 and cooked off the solvents in the JPW in a tall coffee can over a hotplate until all of the solvents boiled out of the wax. It practically took the whole can of cooked JPW to get 4 oz. of wax. I turned off the hotplate and let the "refined" JPW cool. I inadvertently let the JPW cool to room temperature. The liquid JPW turned into a hard wax. I remelted the JPW and then dumped it into a mixing bottle with the LLA already sitting inside. I used a glass jar with measuring gradients etched into the side making it easier for to measure the volume of the contents. I then added the 10% (by volume) of MS. I then put the cover back on the bottle and while the mix was still hot, shook the mix. The mix was then poured back into the LLA bottle using an plastic funnel. When the LLA/JPW/MS cooled to room temperature, it was hard as a brick (well maybe not a brick but hard enough). I noticed that while pouring the mixture into the bottle with the funnel, the wax turned instantly hard when it came into contact with the funnel and stuck to the funnel like melted candle wax, only harder. I knew this would be a problem when it came time for applying the mix to the bullets because the mix would solidify the instant it touched the room temperature bullets.
I tried soaking the LLA bottle filled with the mix in hot water to dissolve the hardened wax. The contents of the bottle softened but this process took a while and only part of the contents liquified. I then decided to throw the bottle into a pot full of water. This worked; and the contents liquified. The LLA bottle looked like a balloon fish but at least it didn't explode. While the mix was still hot I poured the contents back into the mixing bottle and then added more MS, stirring in the MS thoroughly. I then poured it back into the LLA bottle. The mix is now softer at room temperature and easier to melt with hot tap water instead of boiling water.
My observations based on experience and (perhaps, faulty) deductive reasoning:
1. The JPW can burst into flames even if you are using a tall can and not using an open flame stove. This happened to me;
2. While its advisable to keep a fire extinguisher close by while cooking the JPW, the quickest, simplest and cleanest way of extinguishing a burning pot of JPW is to smother it so keep a pan cover and leather gloves near by. I used a steel plate that just so happened to be nearby and it instantly extinguished the flame. I am now re-cultivating my eyebrows that were lost instantly when the can ignited;
3. The JPW will continue to bubble and boil as long solvents are still present. Once the solvents have boiled out, the boiling ceases;
4. If you boil all of the solvents out, the "refined" JPW will turn solid at room temperature and will cause the whole mixture of LLA/JPW/MS when mixed to the 45/45/10 ratio to turn solid. If you fill two bottles of LLA and connect them with string, you will have a fine pair of nunchucks;
5. Reheating the entire mixture of LLA/JPW/MS and adding more MS into the mix will result in a softer, more useable mixture at room temperature;
6. Forget about heating bullets when applying the mix. If you have to heat the bullets, heat the mix, you have just added steps to an already arduous process of making bullets. Add more solvent (i.e., MS) to the mix and let time do the work for you by allowing the bullets to air dry. Better yet, put the pan of lubed bullets in the sun. That works for me. Bullets lubed with LLA, only, takes less than an hour to dry when dried in this manner.
7. Fool around with the amount of MS added to the mix until you find the right consistency of the lube at room temperature versus drying time. If you need the bullets right away, use less MS. You'll have to preheat the lube and the bullets but the mix will dry faster. If you've got all day or a few, add more MS to keep the mix liquid at room temperature and allow the bullets to air dry;
8. Cooking out the JPW allows you to control the amount of solvent and, hence, drying time. Although this is unconfirmed by me, the solvents in the JPW may take longer to leech out of the wax than MS so while simply mixing in JPW into the LLA works, you may end up having to dry the bullets longer than you would if you cooked all of the solvents out and applied MS until you obtain the right or rather, desired, consistency;
9. DIY homemade products such as lube can be fun but all in vain unless the end-product: a) is cheaper; b) allows you to make more lube of the same quality as LLA where and when LLA is scarce or hard to come-by due to the absence of any nearby source (as in my case); or c) results in a better product than LLA in terms of quality (i.e., ease of application, drying time, tackiness, excess build up in the barrel, etc.) and capability (i.e., less leading, higher bullet velocities). This is the ultimate question here. Most of the posts here (like mine) talk about the process but the real question here is whether the hassle is worth the effort. Since the cost JPW is virtually the same as LLA, unless the benefits of mixing your own lube is greater (or substantially greater for some), you may as well buy two bottles of LLA and spend the rest of your time making bullets or shooting them. There are a few posts in this thread that talk about realizing faster drying times and less tackiness but I would like to hear more remarks from the members who have used Recluse' mix as to the differences between LLA and Recluse's recipe in terms of quality and capability.
Recluse, thanks again for your recipe and all the members who have contributed towards refining the process.
Last edited by Mr. Farknocker; 06-16-2013 at 03:33 PM. Reason: Spelling
Well I sure hope this stuff is as good as some of you say it is. Because I'm in the dog house right now.No I did not use the wife's Pamperd Chief pot to cook the JPW. But I did stink up the whole house doing it.
It was pretty warm here today. So I thought what the heck. I will just bring my hot plate into my shop in the basement and cook up some of this lube. Not a good idea. even with the windows open in the shop. Wife comes home from work and starts in on me. Oh well ben there down that before. She will get over it and I will be trying this stuff out on Saturday.
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One of the many hazards of mixing your own lube. Arguably more dangerous than a flash fire.Originally Posted by Lights
Well I sure hope this stuff is as good as some of you say it is. Because I'm in the dog house right now.
I have tried this lube, and unfortunately two thin coats didn't cut it, I had leading at the muzzle. I went with two liberal coats and had success.
To Farknocker, the only advantage I see to to this lube is that when it dries it is nowhere near as sticky as straight LLA. And that is the result I was looking for. I'm not crazy about the discoloration of my pretty bullets, but that's tumble lubing for ya.
I would like to find a tumble lube that's clear though.
Guns should only be allowed in places where people don't want to be shot.
The lube I made came out the consistency of peanut butter, and I put my finished batch into 2 LLA bottles. I found that 15 seconds in the microwave, with the valve open on top, warms the lube perfect. I draw a W with the lube on about 100 bullets in a margarine container and shake them around, roll them out on wax paper, they dry in a couple hours and no leading. I shoot 380, 9mm, 38, 45 all under 1000fps.
Hope that helps.
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Since most of the business end of the boolit is in the case....you can wipe the noses clean & shiny with a "slightly damp cloth" with mineral spirits on it. I do this on my trucated cone boolits On my SWCs (which I load long) I usually leave them alone because a few of the lube bands are exposed, however I would think you could still wipe the noses of these also to get them back to shiny!
" Associate with men of good quality, if you esteem your own reputation: for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " George Washington
yes, I have done this as well, kind of a pain though. I do this for the bullets I don't intend to plink with. The desert heat is a mother on any tumble lube I've tried. It was 118° last week.
Guns should only be allowed in places where people don't want to be shot.
Can you tumble lube bullets with grooves for traditional lubes?
Yes you can
Aren't we gong to shoot the bullets?
So, shiny bullets are more important than performance? Non-tacky bullets are more important than performance?
Sorry, but the priorities seem completely wrong and unimportant to me. I don't care about the bullet being shiny as it will spend its short life in an ammo box and then be buried in a back stop. Tacky? Who cares? Don't roll your bullets in dirt or sand. Store bullets in cardboard box or such. Load bullets and store in ammo box. Tacky bullets have no exposure to anything in my method to make tacky a problem. If you really hate tacky and need lots of LLA, maybe you should try outside in the sun or get a little oven (you know, the little kitchen counter ones--can't think of name) or simply put a fan across them over night.
What are you shooting that the tumble lube ran out on you?
All my cast handgun bullets do quite well with just a light tumble lube of LLA, but your results are different. Curious.
Your not trying a light tumble lube on rifle bullets, are you?
Why is this a problem?
Well, higher speed and longer barrel does demand more from the lube, so I could see a single light tumble lube as being insufficient.
I used two tumbles of lube and gas checks on a few rifle loads and they worked, but I haven't fired hundreds of rounds. I used to use a sizing die that was 0.001" larger than my average as-cast bullet diameter back when my lubrisizer was still set up. Just haven't experimented much, so I can believe that a single light coat might be insufficient.
I know that Recluse has reported excellent results with 45/45/10 in rifles loads.
If I ever get a .45-70, I might do a lot of lead bullet shooting and play around.
I know this is an old thread but I wanted to say thank you to Recluse.
I am pretty new to casting and trying to keep costs down so I don't have a Lubri-sizer. Was using LLA with success but I dislike how messy it is. I purchased some 45-45-10 from White Lubes to try it out. So far so good! I really like that it is way less sticky and messy. My barrels still look good after shooting a couple of hundred rounds.
I wipe the noses off so they are pretty and try to remember to wipe the bases off as well. Not sure if that is required though.
Glad I came across this thread!
Is it even worth it to make, now that White Label Lube has done all the work for less cost?
Deluxe Liquid X-Lox 45-45-10 32 oz for $15.
To equal this, seems you would need about 3 cans of JPW at $5 each to get 12oz of clarified JPW, so $15, then 3oz of mineral spirits, and 12oz of LLA to give approx 27oz. Even after obtaining all the stuff, you then need to take the time and utensils to put it all together. And you would still need 15% more stuff to equal the quantity Lars is giving you for $15 + $5 shipping.
I was only missing the JPW, but figured not worth the hassle to go to the store to get even just one can for a smaller batch, when I can order for Lars online and have it delivered to my door in a couple days, ready to use.
Another quick question.
I see reference to room temperature of low 70's in the summer. Heck, room temperature here in the winter is 76 and in the summer is 78. With these higher temps, will it make the 45-45-10 lube too thin to use straight up?
The reason I am using this instead of straight LLA is the same as others. Less sticky and more important, cleaner loading dies. Picked up my first TL mold, and while using Lyman 4500 easily and quickly lubed the grooves, same as any normal lube grooved boolit with CR, it still is not as fast as TL when shooting unsized. I would stick with Lyman 4500 before pure LLA though, as the mess is not worth the slight time savings.
Last edited by RobsTV; 07-26-2013 at 07:58 AM.
Exactly why I bought some from the good folks at White Label Lube.
I do all my reloading in the morning/evening on my work bench in the garage where it is easily over 100 degrees during the middle of the day here in South Kalifornikstan. All my boolits are kept here before loading them. I have not experienced the 45-45-10 to be too thin. It dries quickly and stays put. I really like that it is almost mess free. Will find out how it performs in my firearms this weekend.
Don't get me wrong, 45/45/10 is good stuff, but I don't see tumble lubing as being a mess at all; I'm still using the same piece of wax paper I started this January and the same Cool Whip container I started with 10 years ago. Nor have I ever had the LLA or Xlox fail to harden (some complain it never dries). I just don't get why some folks find this a problem that needs fixing.
For me, when I use LLA, that is the only time I need to use the HF Nitrile Gloves in the entire casting/reloading process. I do not like brownish/orange fingers and I do like shiny clean boolits. The time it takes to clean boolits after LLA makes the whole process longer than even pan lubing, so cleaning is not an option. Can't have everything I guess. Which is why the Lyman lube sizer still receives the vast majority of work.
Have you tried the same LLA I have used for a couple decades? I shuffle/rotate about 500 bullets at a time by hand and lubing takes no more than one minute. All I see on the bullets is a shiny/wet look. A little water and detergent and my hands are clean.
I judge things by one main criteria: accuracy. I have no concern about how shiny a case or bullet is. Neither is going to be shiny for long. I shot for accuracy.
I have NEVER had any lube build up in my dies. Never had to clean a die dur to lube. Have no idea why people object to a very slightly tacky bullet, when the target says that the bullet did almost everything I could ask of it.
I haven't sized a cast bullet since about 1975 and love being able to lube 500 bullets in about one minute and consider the "objection" I read to be bordering on the absurd--cleaning the base and ogive of bullets of lube for appearance sake and other activities that are aesthetic and not performance related. As has been said since the day LLA was introduced—if you can see the lube, you used way too much.
Keep your lubrasizers, but don't bitch about LLA or 45/45/10. If done with a concern for performance and time saving, both outshine every other way to lube a cast pistol bullet.
I like the speed of tumble lube process. I like even more the even quicker Recluse blend where one could tumble in the morning and shoot in the evening. But, I have two pistols that lead with either and neither leads with traditional NRA. Rats
prs
Last edited by prs; 08-01-2013 at 01:29 PM.
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