Tumble Lubing--Made Easy & Mess-Free

[Flintlockrecord]

Thanks for all the offers to send some JPW my way. Metweezer is sending some as we speak. Turns out it was not as easy as we thought. A tin of JPW is too big for the small FRbox and it is too expensive to use a medium box. $46.00, thats about $60.00 NZ dollars The solution we came up with is to put the contents into a couple of zip lock bags inside the small box.
Hope it makes it thru customs OK.

This is a great forum! I would never have thought I would have people I have never met and who don't know me, offering to purchase and send me goods, just because we share a common interest on this forum.

Thanks again everyone and especially metweezer for making this work out.

Ian

[nanuk]

another reason this is a great site with great folks

[onesonek]

This is one very LONG thread.
MinWax at my local Home Depot is just over twice as expensive as JPW.
For those in Canada, can't you order over the 'net?
Personally, I plan to try to make a batch with a cheap blender from a thrift store if I ever find one. Two of the best mixers are blenders and paint shakers. Be interesting to hear if that works,,certainly nothing wrong with experimenting.
If all you do is evaporate off the mineral spirts to mix the wax and LLA and then add back the same mineral spirits, the blender should do a really good job. I understand your thoughts here, but the solvent in the JPW is different than mineral spirits. Mineral Spirits as in Recluse's words has something chemical going on in the mix. But again, experimentation is a good thing, and what you find may very well work just fine for your needs or application.

I have done some experimenting myself with Recluse's original formula and mixing technique. I didn't change the mixing technique so much however but refined it to my liking. Only thing I did there was to use a flame proof graduated beaker (avail. on line), on a hotplate, to keep my ratios consistant. Wanting to play around with the formula at higher speeds than Recluse had, I tried adding some extra Carnauba. Figuring I need a little extra of the mix on the boolit, I dipped them. My figuring was wrong! They did fine with no leading at 2400 fps, not sure what pressure I was running , but while not having a lot of smoke, I had a fair amount of ash left in the barrel. Accuracy could have been a little better, but I was having some scope issues, rather than the lube,,,,at least in this situation. More testing is needed in that respect.

I then tried the experiment mix just tumble lubed, and found it too did fine,,, actually better but that was likely do to a different scope, and, but with less ash left over. I haven't been able to do any further testing, but I am curious now to try the Recluse formula as is, with the same load and see. I probably should have started there first, but my tinkering nature had me jump in the middle, rather to come in from the edge. But that is part of the fun, more shooting due to playing around.

Regardless, the main reason I posted on this again, was to bring up the Beaker thing, if I hadn't already (memory failing ). I sure works great with minimal investment!!!

[LonghunterCO]

I am going to have to give this a try. Thank all!

[NPBullets]

great post! i'm a noob when it comes to casting boolits, i will try your recipe. thanks!

[gofastman]

what happens if you add too much mineral spirits? i think i got the ratios a bit wrong
mine is probably:
50% LLA
35% JPW
15% MS

[DLCTEX]

I did a batch of 452=200 TL SWC today and tried getting by with one application. I loaded nine rounds and fired them and got leading. Both lube and boolits were still pretty warm and that may have factored in , but I then second coated 25 and got no leading even though I loaded them before the lube had completely dried.

[Recluse]

what happens if you add too much mineral spirits? i think i got the ratios a bit wrong
mine is probably:
50% LLA
35% JPW
15% MS

You'll probably be fine--just will notice a bit more tackiness with your boolits and a longer period of time for them to dry.

Easy fix is to simply heat it back up and add more JPW.

[gofastman]

You'll probably be fine--just will notice a bit more tackiness with your boolits and a longer period of time for them to dry.

Easy fix is to simply heat it back up and add more JPW.

I added a bit more JPW, plus maybe 2 teaspoons of EP grease, just for fun.

[nanuk]

I have ordered it over the net, EBAY actually.

the shipping kills ya though....

I found MinWax, Briwax, and Trewax.

minwax is cheap, Briwax is brutal expensive, Trewax is almost as expensive.

I'm sure all of them would work to an extent.
Also, I'm sure one could mix canning parafin and carnauba 2-1 and make it work too.

[rjrivero]

I managed to find the flash point of JPW. Don't know what the temperature was, but if it starts boiling, take it off the heat!!!!!

[gofastman]

I managed to find the flash point of JPW. Don't know what the temperature was, but if it starts boiling, take it off the heat!!!!!

why did you have an open flame near by?

I think you mean autoignition temperature.
EDIT TO ADD:
I'm guessing most of you know, but trying to put out a fire like this with water will have explosive and potentially deadly results!
Baking soda works the best, in my non-professional opinion. "B" (ABC or BC) or "K" (Purple K) rated fire extinguishers will do the trick too.

I added a bit more JPW, plus maybe 2 teaspoons of EP grease, just for fun

this was kind of a bad idea, it takes a lot longer to dry and never completely loses its tackiness.
oh well, failure is one of the best teachers

[Recluse]

why did you have an open flame near by?

I think you mean autoignition temperature.
EDIT TO ADD:
I'm guessing most of you know, but trying to put out a fire like this with water will have explosive and potentially deadly results!
Baking soda works the best, in my non-professional opinion. "B" (ABC or BC) or "K" (Purple K) rated fire extinguishers will do the trick too.

I always have a fire extinguisher nearby when casting or making boolit lube, but I've yet to have my molten lube or beeswax or JPW ever hit its flash point. I just don't let it get that hot and I keep stirring it constantly.

I think this was kind of a bad idea, it takes a lot longer to dry and never completely loses its tackiness.
oh well, failure is one of the best teachers

Yep, the grease will keep it tacky forever, especially in conjunction with the liquid alox. Not sure the grease would add anything to a tumble lube, though. But that's what experimenting is all about and I'm one that likes the journey of exploration.

[C.F.Plinker]

I did have JPW ignite when I was boiling it down over a electric hot plate. I knew it could occur so I removed everthing within 2 feet of the pot. It is more impressive than having candle wax ignite when you are fluxing the pot. Since I knew it could happen, I had a piece of plywood handy so I could quickly and easily cover the top of the pot. Then the flame goes out. It didn't even begin to singe the board.

The next time I boil JPW down, I will take the same precautions and just figure that at that point all of the volitales have boiled off. Or, more likely because I don't like fires, I will measure the depth of the JPW when it has melted and stop boiling it off when it gets down to 30% or so of the original depth. This should give me a cushion because it was down to around 25% when it flashed.

You are working with volatile gases that can and will ignite if they come in contact anything that is above their ignition temperature whether it is a flame or just the side of the pot or pan. Remember that to extinguish a fire you can cut off the source of fuel, remove the oxygen, or reduce the temperature below the ignition point. In this case cutting off the oxygen by covering the pot is the quickest. Then turn off the heat so it cools to less than the ignition point.

[3006guns]

My only experience with Alox was several years ago and frankly, I wasn't impressed. The result was a mass of sticky, nasty looking boolits and I dismissed the process with disgust.

Then I followed this thread. Recluse has always provided good information so I decided to try it and invested a whopping $1.00 in a second hand hot plate. Since money was no object, I also bought a heavy aluminum sauce pan for .... 10 cents.

I melted the JPW on low heat and stirred it for about 5-6 minutes. Note that I said LOW heat...I did not get it anywhere near as hot as described by others, and it certainly wasn't boiling...just melted and very hot. During this time, I could see vapors but not the quantities of smoke mentioned either. At that point, I shut off the heat and poured in the Lee Alox while still stirring. Since an electric hot plate takes quite a while to cool down, I removed the pan and stirred in 1 oz. of turpentine.

Yep......turpentine. Because I'm a curious, inventive type? Nope.....because I'm an idiot that can't follow simple directions. I should have taken a written list to the hardware store, but no, I grabbed turpentine instead of mineral spirits. A little quick research on the net revealed that both serve the same purpose, it's just that turpentine is derived from pine trees and mineral spirits are a petroleum product. Turpentine is a slower drying solvent though. It's also about twice as expensive as mineral spirits.......take note!

Well, since I'd mixed everything, I just as well let it cool off and see what I get. After a couple of hours the loob had a nice chocolate color and a consistancy of thin maple syrup at room temperature. I grabbed a handfull of Lee tumble lube .45 auto boolits and gave them the "Recluse squirt" in a margarine tub, then set them aside to dry. After a little over an hour, they had a fairly stiff, waxy coating but no stickiness. I processed about 200 more and let them dry overnight. All of them appear to have a good uniform coating and will get a second treatment this morning. There was no reason for such a long drying time....I just wanted to see if longer drying time would affect the results. My conclusion is that there's no reason to wait longer than necessary.

I have a quart of Naptha, which is a volatile solvent used instead of MS or turps when you want fast drying, oil based paints. I think it will speed up the drying/hardening considerably. I'll mix up a batch in the future and report the results here.

I like this technique. It takes Alox from the "mule snot" category in my mind and makes it a useful and quick process. The real test will be in the shooting of course, but I expect pretty good results.

Recluse.....thank you!

[onesonek]

"I melted the JPW on low heat and stirred it for about 5-6 minutes. Note that I said LOW heat...I did not get it anywhere near as hot as described by others, and it certainly wasn't boiling...just melted and very hot."

Yeah,,,,,heat management is rather critical, so it seems.
First batch I made it was a guessing game on that aspect. I didn't get to the flash point stage, but likely wasn't far from it.
The stuff creeps up the sides, and will go over and down the other as heat increases. Low heat is all that is necessary to reduce the solvents out. How low???
Well since, I started using a graduated beaker to help manage volume control. Besides that point, I also start using a thermometor to watch the temp.. I haven't run it to find out at what temps., safety becomes an issue, but did find running about 300-325 degress is hot enough to evaporate off the solvents from the JPW. At 350, I found it wanting to creep a lot more than I wanted to see. Although I found at this rate, it took about 10-15 mins. to reduce it by 25-30%. I wouldn't take that as gospel however, I can see where air temp., elevation, and barametric pressure, would change that somewhat.
Now I just use my lead pot thermometer, but a cheap candy thermometer will suffice nicely. But beyond that, the best investment I made, was the graduated beaker. It takes alot of the guess work out of the mix. I'm positive on that point, that being absolute on the volumes isn't all that critical, when within reason. But still the same, anytime one can be more consistant, just aids in repeatability. Necessary? maybe not, but I find accuracy starts with consistency in all aspects.

[metweezer]

Recluse, How do I clean up the mess that I made? I have a wax coated funnel, a pot that I don't think I will be able to get clean again and other utensils that are coated with the stuff. Is there any way to clean these pieces up?
Thanks, Steve

[3006guns]

.....on my post regarding the use of turpentine. I just finished lubing over 450 boolits with this concoction and frankly, it's not very good. Turpentine has a very LONG drying time (anyone remember lead based paints?) and after almost two hours they're still sticky to the touch, so regular paint thinner (or naptha) probably evoporates faster just as Recluse said.

I'll still use the boolits......but it might be two days from now !

metweezer: The JPW/alox sticks like glue, so if you used your wife's pots or pans just run out and buy new ones. Then be very, very, quiet.

[metweezer]

metweezer: The JPW/alox sticks like glue, so if you used your wife's pots or pans just run out and buy new ones. Then be very, very, quiet.

I bought a pot from the thrift store but once the stuff cooled it solidified and is not liquid at all. It is very hard and won't pour. Did I get my ratio screwed up? I cooked the JPW for 20 min on a presto grill at 350 degrees.

[P.K.]

.....on my post regarding the use of turpentine. I just finished lubing over 450 boolits with this concoction and frankly, it's not very good. Turpentine has a very LONG drying time (anyone remember lead based paints?) and after almost two hours they're still sticky to the touch, so regular paint thinner (or naptha) probably evoporates faster just as Recluse said.

I'll still use the boolits......but it might be two days from now !

metweezer: The JPW/alox sticks like glue, so if you used your wife's pots or pans just run out and buy new ones. Then be very, very, quiet.

Oh my! LOL! Good thing the holidays are right around the corner.

Wait, could be a bad thing, she'll be cooking...Better go get the Rachel Ray signature series or sumthin.