Tumble Lubing--Made Easy & Mess-Free

[Thecyberguy]

It is an awesome recipe and a great thread to read through. I do not think it will fade for a long, long time.
Thanks again and you have a good 'un, Guy

[HighRoad]

Here are the steps as I understood them. Recluse, please feel free to correct as required.

ATTENTION: DO NOT USE AN OPEN FLAME IN THIS PROCEDURE

1. Melt the Johnson Paste Wax (JPW), and cook off the solvents until you get a very viscous liquid.
   When cooking down a whole can, somewhere between half and 1/4 can left is where u want to be.
   Recluse used a temperature setting of 350F
   
2. Measure out:
   
   • 45 units of cooked down JPW
   • 45 units of Lee Liquid Alox (LLA)
   • 10 units of Odorless Mineral Spirits
     
3. Add the proper amount of LLA and stir/blend into the liquefied JPW
4. As soon as the LLA is mixed in, turn the heat completely off and continue to lightly stir the mix, letting it cool naturally.
5. As soon as the concoction has cooled enough that it won't warp or melt the bottle that the lube is going to be poured into, add the 10% odorless mineral spirits into the mix and stir well.
6. Fill bottles

[alamogunr]

Just in case Recluse posts a comment on the previous post, I would like to add a question.

I did not cook all the solvents out of the JPW and I used Alox 606-55 rather than LLW. My reasoning was that the Alox had much less solvent than LLW and the JPW would make up the difference. The resulting tumble lube is somewhat thinner than reported by others here. Should I reheat and cook down the mixture and then add mineral spirits, and if I do that how do I judge how much MS to add?

Since I mixed equal amounts of Alox and JPW before cooking off the solvents, it would seem that more JPW is needed. Comments?

John
W.TN

[HighRoad]

I made my first batch the 45-45-10 bullet lube last night. I started by empting the contents of the JPW into a pan on a hotplate. Turned the hotplate on just a little past low. The JPW melted to a liquid within a couple of minutes. I measured the depth of the liquid with a piece of wood and marked with a pen. I place my lead thermometer in the pan. I maintained a temperature of 300F to 350F. After 45 minutes the contents cooked down between1/4 and ½ of the original depth.

Next, I poured the contents back into the JPW can. I measured out ¼ cup LLA and poured it into the pan. I then measured a ¼ cup of the cooked down JPW and poured it into the pan. I did this twice more so that I ended up with ¾ cups of each JPW and LLA. Blended this together for 5 minutes on the hotplate. I then removed the pan from the hotplate and set it in a shallow pan of water (about a ½ inch) to accelerate the cooling down. When the mix was lukewarm I added 1/8 cup of MS and mixed it in. I then added to my squirt bottles.
I then took some boollets and put them in a coffee can, squirted the lube on them and tumbled. Took a look at them and couldn’t see much lube; squirted a little more. This time the lube started to solidify on the bullets. (Oh #%$* must start tumbling) Took another look and now I could easily see a build up on the boollets.

After rereading some of the posts in this thread this morning, I find that the lube should hardly be discernable on the boollets. So I plan on tonight to stick the coffee can with the lubed bullets in the oven at 200 degrees, tumble and the pour out to dry. Hopefully that will smooth out the lube.

Sorry for the long post; thought it might be helpful to those who have not been here yet.

[camaro1st]

very nice took care of my questions on TL thankyou

[Thecyberguy]

Recluse, I also would like to thank you for taking the time to answer all of our questions. It is folks like you that make these forums a great place to spend time and seek info.
Thank you and as always....have a good 'un, TCG

[Bullseye1]

You all need to read this!

Last night when making this recipe, I had 3 foot flames shooting out of the pot and I WAS NOT using an open flame or a shallow pan! I was following Recluses's instuctions to the letter. I set my hot pad just below the medium setting which I have verified with my laser infrared thermometer is about 350 degrees. My 2 scoops of JPW came to a boil. The bubbling action was spitting up little specs of liquid JPW - occasionally out of the sauce pan. All it takes is one little spec to hit the hot plate coil and POOF. This mixure will not extinguish without baking soda. I got the pan on the floor and waited till the mixture burned out - about 2 minutes! Good thing my wife wasn't home.

I was reluctant to try this again, but I scrubbed out the pot and had the baking soda ready this time. Here is want you need to watch for so you don't burn your house down!!!!

1. HEAT THE JPW ON THE LOWEST SETTING FIRST.
2. NEVER LEAVE THE ROOM like I read one guy did. Watch it closely.
3. Increse the heat SLOWLY just to the point where it wants to start to form tiny bubbles. This took about 7 or 8 minutes. Don't let the tiny bubbles become BIG bubbles!!! Lift the pot off the plate for a few seconds to cool it down if necessary.
4. The solvents are still vaporizing nicely without the danger. My laser thermometer read no higher than 310 degrees. My actual setting on my hotplate (Harbor freight) was just above "warm". I added 2-3 minutes to the cook time because of the lower temp. The lube turned out fine.
5. Baking soda ready and gloves on your hands.

Hope this clarifies this proceedure a little better. Lower heat works equally as well. Be careful and prepared.

[frankenfab]

I have actually been setting the whole can of JPW on fire after the fumes start rising and letting it burn until it's half full. A larger stainless steel bowl or pot placed on top of the can of JPW will immediately put the flames out. No charring of the JPW or ill effects.

I did this outside, of course. I put the can on a electric hot plate with a 3/4" thick steel disc on top, and turn the hot plate OFF after lighting the can.

[Moonie]

For my last batch I also set it on fire, made sure I had a lid first to smother the flames.

Worked perfectly, but my 12 year old daughter was a bit concerned with the whole procedure.

She said something to the wife about me needing adult supervision...

[kelbro]

I have made several batches of this and all that I did was melt the JPW, blend in the LLA, and reduce the mineral spirits to about 5% to offset the remaining solvents in the JPW. No high temps, no fires, works great. Trewax works just as well as JPW.

The best tip that I found for this lube method was to heat the bullets (~200 for 5-10 mins) before application. That, combined with warming this lube in a pan of boiling water, dries the lube on the boolits to a workable state in less than an hour.

[zxcvbob]

I used Minwax Paste Finishing Wax (it's what I had already) and LLA. Didn't measure anything, just melted a big spoonful of wax and stirred in about half as much Alox. When it was cool enough to handle I poured it back into the LLA bottle, which wasn't quite empty. Just a swag, I'd say it's about 60% Minwax and 40% Alox.

I've been using it with Lee 148 grain TL soupcans cast from soft lead (about 15# pure lead to 5# WW's.) It smokes and stinks *much* less than straight LLA, and the boolits are not sticky. I am getting a little leading and fouling just in the first inch of the barrel, but it doesn't build up very fast. The rest of the barrel is clean as a whistle. The boolits are accurate with no flyers.

This is a new boolit mold, so I can't say if they lead if I use straight LLA or if I cast a harder alloy because I haven't tried those yet. The same load using commercial DEWC's (with whatever hard blue wax lube they use) does not cause leading, but these are more accurate.

[Recluse]

You all need to read this!

Last night when making this recipe, I had 3 foot flames shooting out of the pot and I WAS NOT using an open flame or a shallow pan! I was following Recluses's instuctions to the letter. I set my hot pad just below the medium setting which I have verified with my laser infrared thermometer is about 350 degrees. My 2 scoops of JPW came to a boil. The bubbling action was spitting up little specs of liquid JPW - occasionally out of the sauce pan.

Bullseye,

Thanks for the info.

I've been making this blend the same way for a long time now, and I've never (knock on wood ) had any flames whatsoever from the JPW.

Now, I use a griddle--one of those things you make pancakes and bacon and eggs on--and I set the temp knob to 350. I have no idea what the actual temperature of the JPW is as I've never bothered to stick my casting thermometer in there. Reckon I'll do that next time I mix some up.

Probably be helpful, as I think about it. I know what the JPW looks like and how long to cook it before I add the LLA to it. So next batch I make up, as the JPW is cooking, I'll stick the casting thermometer in and see what the actual temp is, then add that to the original post.

As always, anytime any of us are dealing with molten alloys and/ or flammables, safety and preparedness should be first and foremost. I keep a fire extinguisher in my reloading shop, plus I have running water (not what you want to use on a petroleum based flame, however) for burns and whatnot.

Safety first. Always safety first.

[jlmomaha]

how long does it take for this mix to dry? over night kinda thing?
thanks guys

[zxcvbob]

how long does it take for this mix to dry? over night kinda thing?
thanks guys

about an hour; maybe 2. Or you could hurry it along with your wife's hairdryer and they'd be ready to use as soon as they cool back down.

[jlmomaha]

then I have a problem because my coated boolit has been sitting for 3 hours and still not dry, I eye balled it so I am guessing I added to much mineral spirits? and ideas

[SciFiJim]

Actually, if it is still wet it could be too much Alox. The mineral spirits evaporate pretty quickly.

[noylj]

The only concern I have over the method of preparation is the boiling off of flammable solvents. I would have expected that adding JPW and LLA into the pan and slowing heating/melting without forcing the boiling off of solvents would be, at least, somewhat effective.
I will just have to try it myself when I run out of all my current bullets, all lubed with pure LLA (that, and buy some Xlox from White Label).
I would not think that the Alox grease would be as effective in the formula as the LLA/Xlox which "dries" tacky/hard, unlike a grease.
I would expect the grease to be better for pan lubbing with paraffin wax or such, though I would still think that the LLA/Xlox would be better for a firmer/harder lube.

[jlmomaha]

after about 3 hours it dries, maybe to much jpw?....

[zxcvbob]

How thick are you puttin' it on?

[CATS]

How much does this lube smoke ?
CATS