LLA consistency

[HWooldridge]

I was given a couple bottles of LLA; one is about the consistency of 10w oil and the other is about like room temperature molasses. Is there a “right” range to get the recommended coverage in a couple of coats?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Add some MS to get the consistency that you desire for application. It doesn't really matter how much, as it evaporates after applied.

[megasupermagnum]

I've never had Alox that thin at room temp, not even the deluxe Xlox that is thinned. It's more like peanut butter at room temp. It's all the same when you warm it up, which you should be doing.

[Sasquatch-1]

If mine gets to thick I add a small amount of acetone. Thins it out and evaporates off the bullets fairly quickly after lubing.

[Larry Gibson]

You can thin it out with MS or Acetone, as mentioned, or simply put the bottle in a large cup/bowl of hot tap water for 10 minutes before use. Remember to only put a light golden hue of LLA on the bullets in any one application. Let it dry thoroughly before sizing/loading/use. That should be sufficient for velocities under 1000 fps. A second application is best after sizing for velocities over 1000 fps but it also must be thoroughly dry before use.

[HWooldridge]

I coated some 30-30 boolits with two coats of LLA and let both dry - but the second coat seemed to melt the first coat and not add much appreciable thickness. The slugs are definitely amber colored but the lube grooves are not completely filled. For both coatings, I put about 20 pieces in a zip lock bag and tumbled them around, then poured them onto a piece of wax paper to dry overnight. This was with the container that had thinner lube to begin with.

I may try some of the thicker lube in the other bottle and see what I get.

Has anyone mixed LLA with straight beeswax to get a more conventional lube for use in a lubrisizer?

[Sasquatch-1]

In my experience (which is not great with Alox) I have never filled the lube groves. Even on bullets that are made for tumble lube.

[Soundguy]

If you want fast drying.. take that thick bottle and add naptha instead of mineral spirits.. the naptha flashes off WAY WAY faster than mineral spirits will. that will help you do 2 light coats much faster.

[GregLaROCHE]

I have a tube that is cracked. It comes out like stiff peanut butter. Even though I keep it in sealed plastic bag, I still need to add mineral spirits. Still works fine.

[gloob]

Recluse has posted about filling the lube grooves. I found it works for me with TL bullets. The trick is to roll and slide the bullets around in a single layer at a time with the right amount of lube.

I dry my LLA out and cut it with beeswax to make a batch of lube. I put a chunk in the pan and use a heat gun to melt it. Then roll and slide. If the grooves don't fill up enough, I add more lube until they do. If I get too much lube it will cling all over the bullets and make a mess, so I add some more bullets. If there's too many bullets in the pan to form a single layer, I dump some out, for the next go.

After the lube grooves have good fill, I dump them out into a second clean and cold pan and roll them a few times to clean up any little bits of lube still on the sides or noses. There's no drying time. They are ready to bag or use after doing this for 10-20 seconds.

[Larry Gibson]

HWooldridge

"I coated some 30-30 boolits with two coats of LLA and let both dry - but the second coat seemed to melt the first coat and not add much appreciable thickness. The slugs are definitely amber colored but the lube grooves are not completely filled. For both coatings, I put about 20 pieces in a zip lock bag and tumbled them around, then poured them onto a piece of wax paper to dry overnight. This was with the container that had thinner lube to begin with."

That is good, with LLA the lube grooves on conventional or TL cast bullets, do not need to be filled. The second coat isn't there to increase diameter and usually doesn't. It blends with the first coat to simply increase the amount of lube on the bullet. With TL bullets the lube will fill the small grooves if the bullet is sized between applications.

"I may try some of the thicker lube in the other bottle and see what I get."

I suggest you load and test the first bullets you already lubed. The mistake most first time users make, myself included, is to think there is not enough lube when done as per Lee's instructions. We add more and end up with gooey bullets, lube build up in seating dies and a mees in general. Test what you've done so far. You may find them to work perfectly w/0 any leading or other problems.

"Has anyone mixed LLA with straight beeswax to get a more conventional lube for use in a lubrisizer?"

Yes, it is far cheaper, a lot less hassle and you will get a much better product, to just buy 50/50 lube from White Label.

[gloob]

Maybe it's because I use heat, but my results are quite different.
I don't find multiple coats to do anything, at all. And while the grooves do pick up some lube during sizing if you put a thick enough coat on them, most of it ends up in the mouth of your sizing die.

If you really want to fill them it's easier and cleaner to do that after you size your bullets. Sizing is the only reason I ever coat my bullets twice.

These silvery bullets have one light coat of LLA just for sizing and crimping on the gas checks. Checks have already been sized on, in this pic.



Then after, I do the real coat to fill the lube grooves, like Recluse described many years ago. It's not messy, at all. Lube stays in the grooves. Light coat over the rest of the bullet. No mess, no fuss.


This batch was not even good. I'm looking at another batch where the grooves are 75% filled and completely opaque brown in the grooves, but too lazy to take and upload another pic. But ^ that's a lot more fill than you can get in a normal lube groove bullet.

Here's a bullet where I altered the mold to split a normal groove into two smaller lube grooves. Before I did that, I couldn't get the single big groove to pick up any noticeable tumble lube, at all. Now you can see the two brown rings mostly filled in.

[schutzen-jager]

If mine gets to thick I add a small amount of acetone. Thins it out and evaporates off the bullets fairly quickly after lubing.

careful with the acetone - too much + it will melt the LEE plastic bottle - also very toxic when iy evaporates -

[HWooldridge]

HWooldridge

"I coated some 30-30 boolits with two coats of LLA and let both dry - but the second coat seemed to melt the first coat and not add much appreciable thickness. The slugs are definitely amber colored but the lube grooves are not completely filled. For both coatings, I put about 20 pieces in a zip lock bag and tumbled them around, then poured them onto a piece of wax paper to dry overnight. This was with the container that had thinner lube to begin with."

That is good, with LLA the lube grooves on conventional or TL cast bullets, do not need to be filled. The second coat isn't there to increase diameter and usually doesn't. It blends with the first coat to simply increase the amount of lube on the bullet. With TL bullets the lube will fill the small grooves if the bullet is sized between applications.

"I may try some of the thicker lube in the other bottle and see what I get."

I suggest you load and test the first bullets you already lubed. The mistake most first time users make, myself included, is to think there is not enough lube when done as per Lee's instructions. We add more and end up with gooey bullets, lube build up in seating dies and a mees in general. Test what you've done so far. You may find them to work perfectly w/0 any leading or other problems.

"Has anyone mixed LLA with straight beeswax to get a more conventional lube for use in a lubrisizer?"

Yes, it is far cheaper, a lot less hassle and you will get a much better product, to just buy 50/50 lube from White Label.

Hi Larry,

I loaded and fired that first batch and got some leading near the end of the barrel. This is a Marlin with 24" standard groove barrel; it looks like the lube is being consumed before the bullet exits. I used 24 grs RL-7 with the Lyman 311041 bullet and gas check, BHN was 11. The first five shots went into about 2" at 50 yds but the last five turned into a pattern, and opened up to about 10". A lead wash could be seen on the muzzle and about 4-5" into the bore. I might be able to change powders or reduce the charge but would like to develop a stout load with RL-7, if possible. I neglected to state it the first time, but I did size between coats, so the grooves got two layers.

I tried this same recipe with 18 BNH slugs and a ten shot group shrank to about 4" at 50 yards. I'm using a 6x scope on the Marlin and I know for a fact it will shoot sub-MOA groups with conventional jacketed pills.

[Gobeyond]

I just use a glob for a hundred bullets. But I shake them real good. Whoosh around too. To get a thin coat both times. Worked good but moved on to pan lube. Now going back to the LLA. Did the nra clone route accuracy declined for both black and smokeless. Need something simple for 30-30 and 45 colt bp and smokeless.

[muskeg13]

I bought a lifetime supply of LLA at an estate gun sale years ago, and over time the solvent has evaporated leaving a semi-solid wax. If you don't want to take the time dealing with hot water, I find it useful to take the caps off and warm the bottles in the microwave set on high for 10-12 seconds. You need to be careful to not begin to melt the plastic bottle. Sometimes, a second 10 seconds is needed to melt the LLA so it can be easily thinned with mineral spirits.

I routinely give rifle boolits a final (or second) coat of thinned LLA to eliminate any trace of leading.