First gas checks and have a question

[ghh3rd]

I just used gas checks for the first time. My boolit is the Lee .44 310gr., and I used a .430 die.

Is it normal for some lead to occasionally get smeared on part of the gas check? Wouldn't this this thin layer of lead would be more prone to cause leading?

Also, almost none of the gas checks fit onto the base of the boolit by hand, but were squeezed onto the boolit, causing a tiny bit of lead to shave off of some of the boolits - normal?

Thanks,

Randy

[Marlin Hunter]

I can make a guess and say it is not good that lead smeared on the gas check. What lube press did you use, RCBS, Lyman, Lee, or other? If it was the Lee sizer, I suggest using the liquid alox on the boolit before sizing. What brand checks did you use? I have the Lee C430-310-RF mold and the Hornady checks just snap on. I have not lubed and sized them yet, so I don't know if lead will get smeared on the check.

[Buckshot]

.............Ideally, in a perfect world the GC will 'snap' on the GC shank and not simply drop off before lube-sizing. What seems to happen more often then not is that the GC shank will be a mite too small so the GC doesn't stay put without your finger under it. The other is that you will NOT be able to get the GC on the shank of the boolit straight with only the God given strength in your thumb.

The former is a simple PITA while the latter requires you to use the GC seater and usually will push up a sliver of lead into the area above the GC. In addition it might not be concentric. Not much you can do about the too small GC shank other then having it enlarged. For the 'Too Tight' GC shank you might get away as some do by annealing the GC's and then opening them up a bit. If that bit cures the problem then you're gold. If not you remain screwed.

...............Buckshot

[ghh3rd]

Yes, I used the Lee .430 sizer, with a coat of Alox before sizing and installing the gas checks. My mold is the Lee 430-310-RF, and I'm using Hornady gas checks.

I was only able to fit perhaps 1 of each 5 gas checks by hand -- the rest were forced onto the boolit shank when sizing. Apparently the lead that was swaged from sizing slid over the surface of some of the gas checks.

I wonder if I would be better off coating with Alox, sizing, recoating with Alox and then sizing again to install the gas checks. Perhaps they will fit better after pre sizing.

Should I attempt to scrape off the lead, discard these boolits, or just shoot them?

By the way, the boolits were made from WW and about 4-5% added tin.

Randy

[Marlin Hunter]

1) I wonder if I would be better off coating with Alox, sizing, recoating with Alox and then sizing again to install the gas checks. Perhaps they will fit better after pre sizing.

2) Should I attempt to scrape off the lead, discard these boolits, or just shoot them?

3) By the way, the boolits were made from WW and about 4-5% added tin.

Randy

1) it's worth a try

2) I would just shot them to check for accuracy and then see what the barrel looks like.

3) Maybe there is too much tin. I noticed that if I run my melt closer to 600 than 700+ the base of the boolit is not sharp but has a slight radius which helps guide the gas check onto the shank. I use straight wheel weights.

[armyrat1970]

Yes, I used the Lee .430 sizer, with a coat of Alox before sizing and installing the gas checks. My mold is the Lee 430-310-RF, and I'm using Hornady gas checks.

I was only able to fit perhaps 1 of each 5 gas checks by hand -- the rest were forced onto the boolit shank when sizing. Apparently the lead that was swaged from sizing slid over the surface of some of the gas checks.

I wonder if I would be better off coating with Alox, sizing, recoating with Alox and then sizing again to install the gas checks. Perhaps they will fit better after pre sizing.

Should I attempt to scrape off the lead, discard these boolits, or just shoot them?

By the way, the boolits were made from WW and about 4-5% added tin.

Randy

The sizer will not effect the size of the shank where the GS seats. Won't even touch it because it is much smaller. Unless you are running them through the sizer without lubing first because the nose of the second boolit pushes against the base of the first. May cause a little mushrooming of the base of the lead boolit from the pressure. But that should also deform the nose of the pushing boolit. I've never had that problem so far using Hornady checks. I just lube with LLA. Let the boolits set up for a couple of days, they're not as tacky, than run them through my Lee sizer and seat the checks at the same time. Have yet to have a problem with lead shaving from the checks.
I would agree with Marlin Hunter. Load 'em and shoot 'em. See how they perform. Maybe no problems at all.

[44man]

Yes, I used the Lee .430 sizer, with a coat of Alox before sizing and installing the gas checks. My mold is the Lee 430-310-RF, and I'm using Hornady gas checks.

I was only able to fit perhaps 1 of each 5 gas checks by hand -- the rest were forced onto the boolit shank when sizing. Apparently the lead that was swaged from sizing slid over the surface of some of the gas checks.

I wonder if I would be better off coating with Alox, sizing, recoating with Alox and then sizing again to install the gas checks. Perhaps they will fit better after pre sizing.

Should I attempt to scrape off the lead, discard these boolits, or just shoot them?

By the way, the boolits were made from WW and about 4-5% added tin.

Randy

What gun? What size are the boolits as cast?
Buckshot said it best, make sure the checks are on the boolit all the way BEFORE sizing. The Lee will not seat them.
If you have a Ruger I would want my boolits as close to .432" as the mold will allow.
You can run the boolits through the Lee die base first.
You will see better accuracy if you rub a soft lube like Felix in the grooves before sizing, to remove excess lube, then you will with LLA. You can lap a Lee die very quickly to any size you need.

[Leftoverdj]

Extremely sharp bases can cause the situation you describe. Sometimes just running your thumbnail around the base of the shank can cure the problem. Long term, a slight change in casting technique can produce bullets with bases not quite as sharp. I believe the problem is a very slight amount of flashing at the juncture of the mould and sprue plate.

It's still possible that you have oversized shanks or undersized GCs, but the bases are the first place to look.

[Echo]

A picture would help. But it is my belief that alloy is smearing from the 'land' part of the boolit during sizing in the Lee system, smearing down over the GC.

[ghh3rd]

I will be using these boolits in my Ruger SBH.

I just did some measurements on several boolits and several gas checks. The boolits are dropping at .430 to .431, and the bases at .406. The opening width of the Hornady gas checks are measuring at .403 to .404, so there's the problem, either checks are too small or bases too large. Anyone else have the Lee 310 gr mold who can measure your base size for me?

As far as the boolit size, is that good for my SBH?

I have my beeswax on the way from randyrat and will be making a batch of Felix lube. Although two members sent me some of their lubed boolits so I could get started shooting (thanks guys!), I am trying the Alox approach on this batch of boolits because I'm too impatient to wait to try a few of the boolits that I cast.

I intend to try out the 44Man method of lubing -- rub Felix lube over the boolit grooves and use the sizer to rub off the extra. If my boolits are dropping at .430 to .431, should I lap my sizing die to .431? If so, I need to find out how to lap a die.

One more thing -- any load suggestion for 296 to push a 250 gr boolit?

Thanks - Randy

[runfiverun]

you may need to tap the g/c to put a bit of flair on it before seating.
i have to with the slightly thinner gator checks for my 41 mag.
slower going but worth the results.
i made a little flaired tool from a bolt with my grinder.
much like the flairing tool for case mouths.

[kirb]

I think I would back off with the tin a little 4-5% seems high to me with wheel weights.

Kirb

[mpmarty]

I only shoot pb boolits in handguns. In my rifle boolits the 30 and 458/460 calibers both require me to start the checks (hornady) on by finger pressure and then rap the boolits sharply on the bench top to seat the checks. The LEE sizer and or the Star sizer then crimp on the checks. This works fine for the 309 diameter stuff but with a .460 die in my Star the checks will come off when flicked with a fingernail. If I use a 457 or 458 sizer the check is firmly crimped on but that defeats the entire purpose of using a .460 diameter boolit in my Marlin '95. Next I think I'll just remove the shoulder that produces the reduced diameter for the check on my .460 mold and shoot them plain base.

[MK111]

Are you you don't have a slight fin on the bottom of the cast bullet? I have never had a problem with that bullet. The two guys who designed that bullet for Lee and had the first molds made up never had a problem either. It has always shot great.

[44man]

I only shoot pb boolits in handguns. In my rifle boolits the 30 and 458/460 calibers both require me to start the checks (hornady) on by finger pressure and then rap the boolits sharply on the bench top to seat the checks. The LEE sizer and or the Star sizer then crimp on the checks. This works fine for the 309 diameter stuff but with a .460 die in my Star the checks will come off when flicked with a fingernail. If I use a 457 or 458 sizer the check is firmly crimped on but that defeats the entire purpose of using a .460 diameter boolit in my Marlin '95. Next I think I'll just remove the shoulder that produces the reduced diameter for the check on my .460 mold and shoot them plain base.

It is very easy to just lap the check portion of the mold so they fit tight. I have had to do it many times.
There are very few molds that are perfect at the check portion.
I had to make a check seater for my press for the RD boolits. The boolit was made larger for the Marlin but Lee also cut the check part larger. There is no way to get them on by hand, even beating on the bench is a pain.
I used an old RCBS seat die and fit the punch to the boolit with epoxy. I screwed it way down so it sticks out the bottom of the die. I use the lee punch in the press, set the check and boolit on it and squeeze them together.

[Gohon]

Sent a mould back to Lyman couple weeks ago because the gas check shank was to large. No amount of of thumb pressure would snap them in place. Tried to tap them in place with a rawhide mallet and that worked for some but a lot were seated crooked after going through the GC seater die. Talked to Lyman today and they are sending a new mould out tomorrow. First time I ever had that kind of problem with seating gas checks.

[ghh3rd]

I just saw a post on another forum where someone suggested putting a polished ballpeen hammer in the gas check and lightly tapping the hammer with another hammer to open it up enough to fit. They said it worked fine for them. Sounds like another step that I could do without, but hey, if it works...

Randy

[mulnir]

I am having the exact same issue with the same components. I figured it was my own poor technique or that I recieved a "fat" mold. I measured the shank of the boolits from my mold (.44 310gr. GC), and they are all pretty consistant at .407, the cup dia. of the Hornady gas checks are all exactly .404. I basically planned on milling the mold and converting it to a PB design. I'd rather not do that though. But anyway, those are my findings using the same mold and checks that you are.

[ghh3rd]

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Edit: just nocied that this is Mulnir's first post. Welcome to Castboolits!
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Mulnir, everyone else that I've found with this mold has been happy and without problems. Looks like we are a couple of the 'lucky' ones.

I sent an Email to Lee providing the mold #, and told them I was having a hard time seating checks onto the base. I asked them if they offered an undrilled die, left flat so a flat boolit or a gas check would stop against it and allow the ram to seat the check.

I didn't receive a reply, but did receive a package about four days later. It was a sizing die drilled out flat about 1/4" deep. I think they could have gotten buy without drilling, but it works great. They also included an extra wide ram, apparently so as not to damage either the boolit or check. There was no bill or note enclosed. Although I still get shavings on many of the 310gr, it's very easy to force the gas checks on now.

Since then I purchased a .44 gas check mold. Although the checks and bases are a much better fit for these boolits, they still need a little help getting seated completely, since I'm not sizing them, and this thing does the trick.

Randy

[Mk42gunner]

__________________________________________________ _______

Edit: just nocied that this is Mulnir's first post. Welcome to Castboolits!
__________________________________________________ _______

Mulnir, everyone else that I've found with this mold has been happy and without problems. Looks like we are a couple of the 'lucky' ones.

I sent an Email to Lee providing the mold #, and told them I was having a hard time seating checks onto the base. I asked them if they offered an undrilled die, left flat so a flat boolit or a gas check would stop against it and allow the ram to seat the check.

I didn't receive a reply, but did receive a package about four days later. It was a sizing die drilled out flat about 1/4" deep. I think they could have gotten buy without drilling, but it works great. They also included an extra wide ram, apparently so as not to damage either the boolit or check. There was no bill or note enclosed. Although I still get shavings on many of the 310gr, it's very easy to force the gas checks on now.

Since then I purchased a .44 gas check mold. Although the checks and bases are a much better fit for these boolits, they still need a little help getting seated completely, since I'm not sizing them, and this thing does the trick.

Randy

If you want a flat surface to press against, a 7/8-14 bolt will work.

Be careful seating gaschecks in a reloading press, you can put a lot more force than intended, especially if the press has compound leverage. Like anything else with enough attention to detail it should work.

Robert