First attempt for 45-70 in Marlin GG..

[smburnette]

I was looking at some bullets that I had cast and wondered what to do with some lee C457-500-F.. There are two problems with this bullet.. It is too long to feed in my Marlin, and if fed through the load gate, it MUST be shot. It is too long to eject.. The other problem is that my bore needs .460 bullets...

As I looked at this gas checked monster, wheels started turning.. When I pushed it through a .451 sizer, the bands all became even with the nose of the bullet.. I started thinking that if I paper patched this higher than the orginal drive bands, I could seat it much lower in the case, allowing it to feed.. I would then have a 500 grain bullet mold that would work in my marlin..

I tried and tried to get the patch to fold on the base of the bullet, and it seemed much harder than it looks.. I started thinking that the gas check would protect the bottom of the bullet, and the patch would protect the sides allowing me to shooting it at much higher velocities... I measured how much paper it would take for 2 wraps, and wet the paper.. I then coated one side with LLA and wrapped it tightly.. When it dried, I pushed it through a .460 sizer, and it worked.. My question is, will this work without being patched on the bottom?

[docone31]

You are right, but, why the gas check?
Paper patching eliminates mine.

[smburnette]

The gas check is there because I have close to 1000 already gas checked.. I got happy making them when I first got the mold before I tried to shoot them...

[1874Sharps]

SMBURNETTE,

Your bullet seems to me that it will probably shoot just fine. The only problem I can foresee is that the patch may possibly strip in the leade because it does not extend all the way around the base (as almost all patched bullets are done). Then again, the slight grease grooves remaining and lube may be enough to hold it onto the sides of the boolit and prevent it from stripping. I can tell you this from experience: If the patch does strip, you will have much lead fowling in the bore! Good luck with it and let us know how they shoot!

[softpoint]

I have paper patched Lee bullets for my 45/70 with good results. I have patched the 340 gr. and the 405 gr. They are plain base, I wrapped them with a "tail" and then clipped it off after they were dry. I have that 500 gr. mold you are using also, and I shoot them in my Marlins too, I just select a powder and charge that lets me seat the bullet deep enough to work in the Marlin and then give it a little crimp with the Lee factory crimp die. I have had the good luck to have one of those molds that casts .4585 out my alloy. And while I'd like it a little larger, it shoots good out of two of my Marlins. I don' shoot a lot of those, though as the lighter bullets save alloy and do anything I need to do. I really believe the bullets wrapped as you have them will work, youll just have to try a few and see.

[smburnette]

I am preparing as we speak to load one VERY light with hopes of getting it into the barrel, but not out the end.. I will then push it back out and see if the paper pushed back in the throat, or if it stayed on and cut into the rifling as planned... I will have results in about 10 minutes..

[smburnette]

Well that didn't work.. 10 grains of Reloader 7 WILL push a 500 grain bullet out the barrel.. I thought sure it would go about halfway and get stuck..



I'm going to have to do a few more and try again tomorrow when they are dry..

I can however tell you that there are no signs of leading from the first shot...

[docone31]

I have no experience with real cartridges, however, I do have extensive experience with .308s and .303 British paper patched loads.
Two items,
First, I run full tilt loads. That is why I paper patch. I did not want pop-gun loads. With paper, I can run full tilt loads and outshoot jacketed loads.
Second.
I run a lot of my loads below the shoulder on the cases. It seems, with the cartridges I use, paper allows that. Again, I am more accurate than jacketeds.
My thinking would be more to 49gns of 4198.

[montana_charlie]

Well that didn't work.. 10 grains of Reloader 7 WILL push a 500 grain bullet out the barrel.

I'm going to have to do a few more and try again tomorrow when they are dry.

Five grains of a fast powder like Red Dot will do it for you...
CM

[smburnette]

Five grains of a fast powder like Red Dot will do it for you...
CM

I don't have red dot, but I do have power pistol.. I assume that will work too..

[smburnette]

I was finally able to get one stuck in the barrel.. 1.5gr Power pistol was the ticket.. When I pushed it back out, the paper was intact perfectly with no rolling or pushing back.. Rifling was clearly evident in the paper, BUT there was no tearing of the paper... Keep in mind the Marlin's have shallow rifling.. I pealed the paper off to before I took a picture, but the rifling was into the lead as well..

I believe this will work GREAT.. All I need to do now is figure out where to start with a load.. I have the data for this bullet, but I am seating is MUCH MUCH deeper..

I THINK that a load of around 30 grains of Reloader 7, seated to 2.55 will be within safe levels... Does anyone have any input here??

[Nobade]

Quickload says you'll get 1290 fps with 22274 psi. That's in a 18" barrelled Guide Gun. I wouldn't go much higher on the powder charge, you're getting close to redline there.

[softpoint]

I was using 47 grains of AA2495 with the 500gr. Lee boolit in my Marlins.

[Zeek]

I was using 47 grains of AA2495 with the 500gr. Lee boolit in my Marlins.

Mmmm! My QuickLOAD run-through of that load shows it running around 36 Kpsi, which is WELL over its max allowable pressure. HOWEVER, according to Mic McPherson (who provided QuickLOAD's algorythms), the program's sweet spot is bottlenecked cartridges, and it tends to overestimate the pressure and velocity of straight-walled chamberings. So, you MAY be about at the way-max pressure, rather than beyond it. I would suggest backing off at least two grains and also buying QuickLOAD [from NECO @ http://www.neconos.com/details3.htm ].
Regards, Zeek

[pdawg_shooter]

I load a 430gr PP over 52gr of AA2495 and get great results. If I feel the need for speed, I switch to H322.