Baikal double 45/70 Finally!!!

[docone31]

Yeah, there are two at the shop right near where my shop is.
I got to handle it.
It satisfied my desire for a double.
On both of them, the stock needed to be refinished.
The sights are hard to use, definately scope setup. A recoil pad would help also. A triple field pad.

[TDC]

I've read all I can find at accurate reloading double rifle forums. Most owners are at least mostly satisfied as long as their expectations are reasonable. Please consider that the roasting comes from a forum where doubles start around 6,000 and quickly go up from there. I'll never afford a Purdy nor do I need one. The trigger can be worked on and the barrels regulated. I've never heard anyone say that the gun misfired. Re: the recoil, with bases, rings and scope, it comes in just on the high side of 8 lbs. and the recoil pad can be improved with minor alteration. It's not a Purdy but it kind of floats my boat. I've got 25 rounds cast and loaded for the morning. Got my fingers crossed too. Ron.D

Ron...

Your attitude and expectations are right on the money for this firearm. I don't own their "drillings" but I can give a few comments on their shotguns..

Baikal firearms are often referred to as "Russian Tanks" for their strength and utilitarian looks and finish. They are about 1/5 the price of many other side-by-side offering and that is what makes them so attractive...

I have four shotguns from that company. Two are "Remington branded" 210 SXS's, one in 12 ga. and one in .410. Both are single selective trigger with auto ejectors. The machining is crude and rough but the actions are very tight. The wood finish is also crude and relies on a lot of stain to match the wood forearm and butt stock color. The checkering sucks.... The bluing leaves much to be desired.. In short, they aren't something you can expect adoration for at your local trap and skeet club.....

If the SXS's are built on the 210 (SST) or 220 (double triggers) frame you can expect the LOP to be extremely short for most people. If it's on the 310 (Over and under) frame the LOP will be better. Expect to do some stock modifications.....

To summarize... The shotguns are the best "bank-for-the-buck... throw under the pickup seat" doubles on the market if you're looking for utility. I hope the rifles are for you..

I refinished mine and here are a couple of pictures....

[det]

I have had one for several months It is setup with a leopold 1.5 to 5 scope and liked my Trapdoor load of 24 grains of 2400 and a lyman 500 grain goverment bullet. My father and I have killed a number of deer and one mountain goat with this load over the last forty years.

As to the quality it isn't my 577-500 Rigby hammer gun but I could buy a whole bunch of these for what I paid for the Rigby. I think it is a good value for the money and a great starter double rifle.

Det

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

What's cool, is a Paqchmayr Decelerator pre-cut for a Model 70 fits just about perfect!

Rich

[44mag1]

I have a baikal O/U 12 gauge, 6.5x55x12 gauge and a 7x57rx12 gauge and love them, the 6.5x55 will shoot cast better then it will jacketed so I cant complain there. I think there great for the $$$, I sure would like a 7.62x54r 12 gauge. They made some.

[Ron.D]

Didn't get to the range yesterday as it was closed for police force training. It's open to members again on Thurs.
TDC. Good job on those guns. One thing that suprised me about mine was the decent wood and the decent checkering, I won't be touching either. One thing that's dissapointing are the metal strips between the barrels, very flimsy. Typical of Russian workmanship, I've seen before. I used to shoot free pistol and shot a "Vostock TOZ 35" the barrel and trigger were very good, and it performed well, but machine marks were visible on the exterior and the tools and box it came with looked like a 9th grade shop project.
The loads I've done up are the Lee 405gr. PB which unfortunately mics @ .457 in 2%sb & 2%sn alloy. It doesn't reach the lands as the throat is longer and needs a longer nose to reach. I've got it in front of 40grs. of IMR4475 (IMR3031 clone) Should crono @ approx 1400+ '/s. Will report after range testing. Ron.d

[jlchucker]

Ron...

Your attitude and expectations are right on the money for this firearm. I don't own their "drillings" but I can give a few comments on their shotguns..

Baikal firearms are often referred to as "Russian Tanks" for their strength and utilitarian looks and finish. They are about 1/5 the price of many other side-by-side offering and that is what makes them so attractive...

I have four shotguns from that company. Two are "Remington branded" 210 SXS's, one in 12 ga. and one in .410. Both are single selective trigger with auto ejectors. The machining is crude and rough but the actions are very tight. The wood finish is also crude and relies on a lot of stain to match the wood forearm and butt stock color. The checkering sucks.... The bluing leaves much to be desired.. In short, they aren't something you can expect adoration for at your local trap and skeet club.....

If the SXS's are built on the 210 (SST) or 220 (double triggers) frame you can expect the LOP to be extremely short for most people. If it's on the 310 (Over and under) frame the LOP will be better. Expect to do some stock modifications.....

To summarize... The shotguns are the best "bank-for-the-buck... throw under the pickup seat" doubles on the market if you're looking for utility. I hope the rifles are for you..

I refinished mine and here are a couple of pictures....

TDC, that's some nice looking rework job you've done. I've owned some of these Baikals for a few years now--a sxs 12 GA is what I normally use for trap at my club. It's never failed, nor has my 16 GA. These really are very reliable. Since you made yours look so pretty they no longer can substitute as a paddle or oar should you get stuck in a duckboat and need something to paddle with. Try that with a Beretta or Citori! The Baikal guns indeed are "Russian Tanks", and the best "bang for the buck" in terms of utility doubles. I don't know about the single shot rifles but the price seems right, and based upon my experience with an H & R single shot I'd probably go for the Baikal if I were in the market for a cheap single shot rifle that I could count on.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Do they make a 20Ga SxS?

[Ron.D]

Four Fingers. Yes they do and also 28 ga. The dealer here has one described as.
20 ga. SXS 26.5" BBLs screw in chokes (4) Blued finish, walnut stock,single select trigger, auto ejectors, sling swivels, 3.3kgs. model IZH-43-IC-field
$608.78 Canadian. Ron.D

[jlchucker]

One thing to watch for, guys, if you buy a Baikal side by side. Look it over from the recoil pad forward, and see how much cast there is to the stock. Especially if you're left-handed. Some of those stocks are really cast away for a right hand shooter, and although they'll feel and point OK for a lefty, that feeling is going to be OK only until you start shooting at flying objects and missing. Some are straighter than others. Pick out a reasonably straight one, and usually you can snag down the right side of the stock until you get a decent fit for a lefty. Then, after all of the snagging and sanding, you may just try and finish them off to be as pretty as TDC's guns. Then, some day, when you go to a trap range and the guy next to you with a Ruger O/U or a Citori has something happen like the front bead falling off his gun, or an internal problem causing a misfire on his $1,000 prettygun, you can feel pretty good when you say "pull" and your Baikal cheapie that you may not have even $400 bucks in just goes bang and the bird breaks, time after time.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Every Baikal product I have ever owned has been a plain Jane performer. I have a 22LR Target Pistol that is scary accurate and has almost no muzzle flip it soaks up recoil so well. One fine pistol.




It is an interesting area as well, apparently Lake Baikal holds one third of the world's fresh water!

[big boar]

Ron.D, did you pick it up at Epps? Sounds really nice, don't know if I'd even put a scope on it. Give us a report on shooting results when you can. Where do you get your lead/WW from, very difficult to find any WW around here .

[TDC]

One thing to watch for, guys, if you buy a Baikal side by side. Look it over from the recoil pad forward, and see how much cast there is to the stock. Especially if you're left-handed. Some of those stocks are really cast away for a right hand shooter, and although they'll feel and point OK for a lefty, that feeling is going to be OK only until you start shooting at flying objects and missing. Some are straighter than others. Pick out a reasonably straight one, and usually you can snag down the right side of the stock until you get a decent fit for a lefty. Then, after all of the snagging and sanding, you may just try and finish them off to be as pretty as TDC's guns. Then, some day, when you go to a trap range and the guy next to you with a Ruger O/U or a Citori has something happen like the front bead falling off his gun, or an internal problem causing a misfire on his $1,000 prettygun, you can feel pretty good when you say "pull" and your Baikal cheapie that you may not have even $400 bucks in just goes bang and the bird breaks, time after time.

jlchucker is exactly right with his impressions. I'm a lefty and selecting one with proper cast is sometimes a challenge. His Ruger, Citori, Beretta comparison at the gun club is fun as well. So is bringing down more birds than the 2k shotguns your friends are using...

You have to plan to shoot the heck out of these to get them to loosen up, but for the price I just don't see how anyone can go wrong if they want to invest some time in personalizing them.. Another thing I like to add is a Limbsaver or a Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad.

Three Fingers asked about if they we available in 20 gauge... I'm looking for a SXS in the gauge too and I believe it would become my favorite of the bunch. The .410, 28, and the 20's are built on the smaller frame and that is a sweet and well balanced double. The LOP is still a problem but that can be remedied in several ways...

Since some of you seem interested I've added pictures of a Baikal IZH 27 "Sporting" 20 ga. over and under I also refinished and refitted. This is Baikal's "top of the line" over and under with hand checkering, right hand palm swell, ported barrels, and a double beaded rib. Much wood to frame fitting and internal work was done and it is one sweet shooting shotgun...This frame is also available in rifle calibers.

The wood figure is the finest I've ever seen on a commercially sold Baikal. It was won at a huge east coast firearms exposition by a guy who never used it. After seeing pictures of it I bought it from him, NITB, for $400.... but remember, I had to hand fit and completely refinish it. Sometime things just really work out well!!!

[Ron.D]

Big Boar. private message sent.

[doubs43]

Please consider that the roasting comes from a forum where doubles start around 6,000 and quickly go up from there. Ron.D

I've owned at least half a dozen - or more - Baikal shotguns; SxS in both 12 & 20 gauges, an O/U trap/skeet barrel set with a single matched receiver/stock and several O/U 12 gauge ejector models. Without exception they were reliable, rugged as a tank and very well made where it counted. Hard chrome bores, draw filed barrel exteriors (no "waves" looking down the barrels) and tight lock-ups. All of them shot exactly as they should have. Dollar-for-dollar, GREAT bargains with practical and useful features. At the moment I have only one O/U Model 727E remaining but it stays.

When I was in England, I knew skeet shooters who called Baikal's "rubbish" and Gamekeepers who swore by them. The first bunch were wrong and the latter were spot on IMO.

The double rifles in .45-70 sound like a fun gun and I'd really like to have one. Maybe one day......

[jlchucker]

3 or 4 years ago a publication called "The Shooting Sportsman" did a test and review of a Baikal 20 ga. This publication normally writes about, and its advertisers publish ads about the finest shotguns in the world. Most are handmade, artistic wonders priced at around the value of the home I live in. I was very surprised that they even knew about Baikals, or would even look at one. Yet, they wrung out a 20 ga with some 8,000 consecutive shots without a hiccup, and had very little bad to say about the function. As could be expected, they didn't say much about decoration, stock finish, or the wood-to-metal fit.

[Ron.D]

I finally got to the range yesterday and was quite happy with initial outing. I only had 25 rounds loaded, so had to make each one count. sighting in was quick and regulation didn't take much longer. I shot the last 3 rounds from each barrel for groups. At 50 yrds. the left barrel shot 2" and the right shot 2 3/4" with the right barrel still being 2" higher than the left. I'm pretty happy considering this is the first attempt. The Lee 405gr. FP only mics. @ .457 and is about .080-.100 from the lands, so there's lots of room for improvement. The boolit was in front of 40 grs. of IMR 4475 (IMR3031 clone). It's a fun gun to shoot and recoil wasn't bad at all even from the bench although these loads are pretty tame. There is something about a double alright. Fun gun to shoot and I know with some time spent it'll do better than this. Happy with the first outing though. Work's going to get in the way of more range time until I'm home again for Christmas. Ron.D