Shooting cast at 2700+ fps

[-06]

I have always used factory boolits in my 06's and 308s and want to start using casts boolits. Will they withstand the speed and not lead my barrels excessively? Should I stick with factory jacketed for full speed loads?

[Will]

I've seen claims of high speed cast shooting but have never been able to get above 2100fps without a keyhole. Then I never heat treat or even water drop and don't use pure lino. This might get you up close to 2500 but I doubt it.

[geargnasher]

"Full speed" means different things in different situations, as everything has its practical limits.

I'll share my thoughts based upon my results, which are not typical. First, study a good cast boolit reloading manual to get an idea of what published data yields. Velocities will be considerably less than those of equal-weight jacketed bullets due to the inherent limitations of the much softer and more fragile cast. The main issue is not whether we can push jacketed velocities with cast (this can certainly be done), but whether we can do so with accuracy acceptable to the shooter.

I'll say that achieving higher velocity than "normal" with cast boolits isn't easy, takes much patience, knowledge, care, and experimentation with each individual gun, and often requires specialized tools and techniques normally reserved for "benchrest" shooters (neck thickness measuring and turning, proper neck anneal, neck-only sizers, correct boolit tension in the neck, a perfect boolit fit in the gun, proper bore maintenance, etc etc.).

I personally have gone to nearly 2800 fps with a ten-twist sporter '06 using heavy Lyman Loverin-style heat-treated boolits at 22 bhn , really good lube, and a lot of trial and error. Problem is, accuracy fell off dramatically after 2400. Accuracy beteen 2200-2400 was 1.5 MOA at 100 yards (often 1 moa, but consistenly through long strings on different days I could only claim 1.5) in my 22-inch sporter. 24-2700 or so it fell off to 2 MOA, above that things get crazy as the boolits I were using had reached their limits.

Realistically, there is a lot more to shooting cast than just screaming velocity. You can make a consistent, accurate, and deadly hunting load that will nearly equal jacketed out beyond 200 yards but it takes a lot of work.

Gear

[felix]

Gear, if he is serious about maintaining his objective, you need to introduce him to paper jackets. He might want to trade his time for money saved from purchasing condoms. ... felix

[-06]

Thanks for the input--looks as if I am going to have to stick with factory for my hunting/longer distance shots. Just do not have the time to experiment and refine my boolits. I have a right good supply of them so might as well use them up. Again, thanks.
ETA: Felix, what is this...."He might want to trade his time for money saved from purchasing condoms".........?????????

[geargnasher]

Felix, that's probably the best advice anyone will give, but it seems that every time it is mentioned people say "oh, no, that's way too hard, I could never do that!". Truth is, it was much harder for me to do it the conventional way than with paper, too many things have to be just perfect without the aid of some form of jacket. Thing is, from my perspective, once I got everything just right it was far easier to reload the conventional way and live with some velocity limitations. 2400 fps ain't bad with a 180-grain boolit.

Gear

[HORNET]

Felix was referring to those copper-condom-covered that some people feel they need to use for everything. Do you really need 2700+ fps? The shuetzen boys of the ASSRA run benchrest matches and get frequent groups around 1 MOA (or less) at velocities around 1500 fps. The BPCR guys run about the same velocities and go out to 1000 yards. We have several members that have competed in military short-range (300 yard) matches successfully using cast at speeds just a little higher. Cast at 2200 or a little less will handle an awful lot of shooting. Or you can check the paper-patching forums and go full throttle, but it will take some work.

[-06]

Amazing accuracy at those speeds. I use 150 grain in my deer rifles for the shock factor. They normally "explode" the lungs plus the other organ damage. Not into competition anymore but do love to put them where I aim.

[waksupi]

I really don't see the need for full speed. I've used cast for deer, antelope, elk, bear, and buffalo, all at under 2200fps. I have a point blank range of 225 yards with my .358 Win. Since I don't like to shoot at game over 200 yards, this covers all my needs.
If you have a proper fitting boolit, and a decent lube, leading is a non-issue. I have well over 500 rounds through my main rifle since I last cleaned it, and it has no leading. I wouldn't have cleaned it at that point, had I not been hunting in the rain and snow.

[jhalcott]

A hard as nails , linotype bullet CAN achieve some remarkable speeds. These will punch thru most game like a FMJ military round leaving NO sign of expansion and a small wound channel. I have tried quite a few "tricks" to get RELIABLE hi speed loads for the 7Mauser and 30-06. A change in the weather can ruin all your hard work. I've found as others here , that 22 to 2400 fps is MORE than enough to take care of my hunting needs. Besides, I LIKE the HUNTING part, the shooting is just an after thought!

[-06]

Waksup--your byline says: ..."these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid".... What is he talking about?

[9.3X62AL]

One route to increased downrange THUMP at a given velocity is to increase boolit weight in a given caliber, within the limits imposed by twist rate.

Another route is to use Bruce B's Softpoint Casting Method. I purchased a Lee 309-200 mould expressly for the purpose of combining these two above-listed criteria into what I hope will be an effective hunting package. Other demands on my time and attention have diverted me lately, but I do have test-loads with homogenous-alloy (92/6/2) boolits loaded and ready. These top out at an estimated 1800 FPS, and will be limited to a 200 yard envelope. 95% of my local deer hunting fits that limit.

FWIW, my most successful cast boolit rifle loads run between 1600-1800 FPS. Such velocities aren't challenging or esoteric, but they work for me--and I'm all about the fun. The hair-splitting and obsessive detail-orientation......not so much.

[waksupi]

Waksup--your byline says: ..."these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid".... What is he talking about?

06, he is referring to a gas checked bullet, and I concur. From my personal experience, cast bullets have out performed jacketed bullets for consistant performance.

Another consideration, Veral Smith recommends that you not have an impact speed of over 2200 fps, or you will get massive destruction on the animal. From what I have seen of other people's results and autopsy's over the years, I agree with his observations.

[-06]

Am going to have to "rethunk" some things and do some studying. Thanks for all the info. Have a bud who rebuilds printing presses-bet he can get me some linotype.

[Suo Gan]

Am going to have to "rethunk" some things and do some studying. Thanks for all the info. Have a bud who rebuilds printing presses-bet he can get me some linotype.

This is the PhD section of handloading, no question about it. When you cast boolits you learn things about your rifle that never even mattered to you when you shot jacketed. The good caster has a harmonious balance between his rifle and what he knows it wants, boolits and loads that fit its particular dimensions. A 30-06 is not a 30-06. When you understand what your rifle is telling you, that is when the real magic happens. There is some compromise when shooting cast boolits, this is weighted more towards the start of your venture than a ways into the woods. To me, being self reliant, saving money, understanding my rifles, trajectory, and ballistics much better, far outweighs any perceived advantage of shooting jacketed bullets. When you don't hot rod your rifles all the time they last longer and are easier on your ears and shoulder. They will take game readily...the boys on madison ave don't want you to know that though.

[waksupi]

Am going to have to "rethunk" some things and do some studying. Thanks for all the info. Have a bud who rebuilds printing presses-bet he can get me some linotype.

Actually, I doubt you need linotype. Air cooled, or quenched wheel weights will do everything you need to do. You CAN get too hard, real easy. Lino can shatter in hunting conditions. Hard can also translate to leading, if fit isn't perfect.
The only boolits I have added any extra tin to, was 6mm and under to fill the bands a bit easier.
The best thing to do when starting with cast boolits, is to forget, or ignore anything you think you know about reloading. We don't reload, we actually manufacture ammunition.

[HORNET]

If you get an opportunity to get some linotype at a reasonable price, get it. If nothing else, it will make great trading stock. It's also one of the best materials to use for more complicated alloying and some stick with straight lino for casting .22's (and similar perversions).

[Wayne Smith]

We have two sections on paper patching. One for paper patching smokeless, one for paper patching black powder rounds. If you are interested read around. As has been mentioned, you are here for a PhD in advanced reloading. This may include casting, swaging, or patching cast boolits. All to accomplish an esoteric, probably unuseable, and perhaps unreachable goal. But then, we're all crazy!

[-06]

LOL, like that term "manufacturing ammunition". I got into reloading to insure my ammo supply in the times to come. With ample components one should be able to "manufacture" what is needed for all uses.

[MT Gianni]

If you like the idea of shooting 3-5 rds a year to sight in and 2-3 to fill your tags, casting is probably not for you. If the idea of going to the range several times a month and shooting 100 rds is your kind of fun welcome to the asylum.