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Thread: 44-40 +p?

  1. #141
    Boolit Master
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    Short answer is no...........but if you were keen,its possible to slip a thin sleeve over the case to increase the base dia .which is done to form some odd caliber cases for old guns....definitely a "Dont do this at home ,viewers"

  2. #142
    Boolit Buddy Savvy Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cast_outlaw View Post
    So Iím going to wonder a little off topic here, but was wondering if fire forming 44mag brass into 44-40 is doable. I know that the rim is 0.011 smaller than 44x40, but I imagine that wonít make too much difference on extraction. All other dimensions are not that far off, the Lyman manual says they is only .020 different in length. The reason I ask is my local store dose not carry it, but stocks 44mag. when I order things it takes months for the owner to make the order, and he forgets sometimes as well. If I order it from the city, it costs me almost as much to ship it as the bag of brass dose. Advice here would be much appreciated as I would hate to ruin one of my nice firearms doing something foolhardy.
    I will let Ed or one of the other guys answer in detail but for a quick answer, NO

    The base of the 44 Magnum is smaller in diameter than the 44-40. If you use the 44 Mag it will expand at the base and could cause a problem. The case is shorter than the 44-40 so suggested loads from manuals may create more pressures.

    Since I have this 1 1/4" diameter "testing" barrel...I too have been temped and this just might get me to try a few.

  3. #143
    Boolit Man Cast_outlaw's Avatar
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    Sounds like a job for a guy with a test barrel, and pressure trace system. With only .012 differences in base, and .010 on the rim, and on my Calliper my mag case read 1.282 and a 44-40 case measured 1.293 a difference of .011 in length. So if you were carful with the seating depth, and loaded up from starting data for group one actions. I imagine it would work fine, and end up with stronger brass. but that’s just MHO and savvy jack you have the gear to confirm or disprove this crazy Canuck

  4. #144
    Boolit Master
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    Yep.....012"...taint but a whisker.......now put your face 8" away from where an undersize case is holding back at least 10,000psi.........yep,sounds like a bit more now...........the most likely outcome is gas blowback around the case,making you look like a Chinese panda..........a one eyed one.....

  5. #145
    Boolit Buddy Savvy Jack's Avatar
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    If you don't hear from me by noon, send out the posse!!!

    I loaded up two cartridges using resized 44 Mag WW Super cases in an RCBS 44-40 resizing die.. The WW Super cases are thicker, I think...than the Starline 44-40 cases. The cases are shorter and I did not want to re-adjust my RCBS seating die so I had to use the Redding 44-40 Profile crimp die. It really put a tight squeezing crimp on it so it would fit in the tight chamber of the MGM barrel. I also used a .429 43-215C lead bullet, that plus the deeper seating depth due to the shorter case length and the tight "crimp" could make for interesting results. I did use only CCI-300 primers and 16.5gr of IMR-4227.
    Last edited by Savvy Jack; 02-16-2019 at 08:21 AM.

  6. #146
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cast_outlaw View Post
    So Iím going to wonder a little off topic here, but was wondering if fire forming 44mag brass into 44-40 is doable. I know that the rim is 0.011 smaller than 44x40, but I imagine that wonít make too much difference on extraction. All other dimensions are not that far off, the Lyman manual says they is only .020 different in length. The reason I ask is my local store dose not carry it, but stocks 44mag. when I order things it takes months for the owner to make the order, and he forgets sometimes as well. If I order it from the city, it costs me almost as much to ship it as the bag of brass dose. Advice here would be much appreciated as I would hate to ruin one of my nice firearms doing something foolhardy.
    .44 Magnum brass has quite a bit greater wall thickness at the mouth and would result in a cartridge too large in diameter to chamber unless you turned the mouths thinner to fit into the chamber neck.
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  7. #147
    Boolit Buddy Jedman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cast_outlaw View Post
    So I’m going to wonder a little off topic here, but was wondering if fire forming 44mag brass into 44-40 is doable. I know that the rim is 0.011 smaller than 44x40, but I imagine that won’t make too much difference on extraction. All other dimensions are not that far off, the Lyman manual says they is only .020 different in length. The reason I ask is my local store dose not carry it, but stocks 44mag. when I order things it takes months for the owner to make the order, and he forgets sometimes as well. If I order it from the city, it costs me almost as much to ship it as the bag of brass dose. Advice here would be much appreciated as I would hate to ruin one of my nice firearms doing something foolhardy.
    It's not the rim diameter that is a little different it is the head diameter. Using 44 mag brass in a 44-40 chamber you could have problems, at least a buldged case to a possible case head separation.

    Jedman

  8. #148
    Boolit Buddy Savvy Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    .44 Magnum brass has quite a bit greater wall thickness at the mouth and would result in a cartridge too large in diameter to chamber unless you turned the mouths thinner to fit into the chamber neck.
    Yeap, I could not get them to chamber all the way in the MGM barrel at the range. I thought they would work but I should have tried inserting the firing pin thingamabob in the shop! That last little bit just wouldn't go!!!

    I did get some great results with some other stuff though.

  9. #149
    Boolit Master
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    Both my 44/40 s have chamber necks so tight that .429" bullets thumb seat securely in fired cases.....

  10. #150
    Boolit Buddy Savvy Jack's Avatar
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    Sorry Hootmix, I somehow missed you post but Outpost75 nailed it!! Unless you understand at any point you could hurt or damage things, stick with the published loads.

    If my numbers are correct........
    Today I spent the morning at the range again shooting Goex FFFG and Reloder 7. I am getting consistent 1,300fps/12,000psi with 40Gr/v Goex FFG in semi-baloonhead cases. I am getting consistent 1,300fps/12,000psi with a caseload of Reloder 7 and a 200/217gr lead bullet of the 427098 design. Accurecy with both are consistent 4" groups @ 100 yards.

    UPDATE 2/16/2019

    If my numbers are correct....

    Today I tested, for the second time, a case-load of Reloder 7 that resulted in a great, safe. load for both my revolvers and rifles.


    26.5gr Reloder 7 (case capacity, no compression)
    Accurate Mold 43-208A (bullet sits firmly on top of powder)

    CCI 300 Primers
    Starline Brass (reloaded countless times with high pressure loads)



    10 shot tests

    MGM Testing Barrel (scoped)
    Strain Gauge
    4" group @ 100 yards
    1,382fps @ 11,304psi
    50Deg F, Outside Air Temp


    Uberti Winchester 73' (no scope)
    4" group @ 25 yards
    Consistently hit the gong @ 265 yards
    1,388fps


    Uberti "Cattleman" 5 1/2" barrel
    um, well...need to revisit
    Several gong hits @ 265 yards
    952fps
    https://curtisshawk21.wixsite.com/44...fles-companion

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Uberti Cattleman 5 1/2" barrel

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I was very surprised at how clean the old 1800's unheadstamped brass was after shooting. The brass stayed bright and shinny unlike modern brass that turns dark.
    Last edited by Savvy Jack; 02-16-2019 at 07:14 PM.

  11. #151
    Boolit Buddy Savvy Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Both my 44/40 s have chamber necks so tight that .429" bullets thumb seat securely in fired cases.....
    As they should be if the chamber is cut for .429 bullets. "Tight" in most of our conversations, typically refers to original 44-40 specs to accommodate Winchester factory .425 JSP bullets to which a .429 will not chamber...especially with thicker Remington brass.

  12. #152
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savvy Jack View Post
    As they should be if the chamber is cut for .429 bullets. "Tight" in most of our conversations, typically refers to original 44-40 specs to accommodate Winchester factory .425 JSP bullets to which a .429 will not chamber...especially with thicker Remington brass.
    My Ruger original Vaquero .44-40 came with a .429" barrel and a cylinder having a .444 neck diameter and .426 cylinder throats. It shot jacketed factory OK, but not lead.

    My S&W 544 Texas Commemorative also has a .429 barrel, but the cylinder has .4285" cylinder throats AND the chamber necks are .447" so that you can load .429 jacketed or .430 load bullets in Starline or Remington .44-40 brass and the revolver shoots like a house on fire!

    John Taylor rechambered my Ruger Vaquero cylinder and also made for me a custom .44-40 cylinder to fit my .44 Magnum Ruger Super Blackhawk. He also ftted a Numrich Marlin 1894 .44-40 barrel to my H&R .44 shotgun frame and chambered them all with the same reamer, so that all of the guns interchange brass and can be loaded with the same die adjustments. Neck diameter of the chambers is .447 and cylinder throats are .4305" and I size bullets .430". Hornady .430 XTP jacketed bullets in 180- and 200-grain weights shoot wonderfully in both rifle and revolver with a case full of RL7 or 4198.

    My Marlin 1894S from the 1993 run and Interarms Rossi '92 clone in .44-40 both have .448" chamber necks and .430" barrel groove diameter.

    IN ALL OF THESE GUNS I use Accurate 43-230G cast 1 to 30 tin-lead from Roto Metals with 24.5 grains of RL7, 22 grs. of IMR4198, or 7.2 grains of Bullseye. These loads are +P and not for Winchester 1873 clones for Colt SAs.

    Attachment 236172Attachment 236173Attachment 236174
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  13. #153
    Boolit Buddy Savvy Jack's Avatar
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    The 43-230G appears to be one I have yet to run through the MGM barrel. I shall do that next weekend!!

  14. #154
    Boolit Buddy Savvy Jack's Avatar
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    Loaded up some 230G's with 26.5gr of Reloder 7. Cases capacity with the base of the bullet sitting firm on top of the powder.

    Starline Brass
    CCI-300 primers
    1.297 case length
    1.600 AOL

    bullets resized to .429
    230gr
    length .650
    seating depth .340

    I'll give them a shot next weekend.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check