Whats wrong?

[troy7769]

I have just mesured some boolits that i cast a few nights ago and was a little bumed at what they mesured, they were from two different casting sessions, one at home and one at work.They were cast from a Lee TL401-175 SWC, two banger,I chose this one because I did not want to have to size them. I'm not sure that I had the mold and melt as hot as was needed, but when they started to look good thats were I stoped heating the melt. They were water droped. I guess I was expecting some variation in them but not this bad, so I was thinking that the problem has got to be ME not the equipment. I don't mind remelting and casting again if that is what it takes. BTW this is my first time casting boolits. Any help with this would be wonderful. Thanks, Troy
.398-.406
.400-.402
.398-.408
.398-.404
.402-.407
.399-.402
.398-.409
.399-.406
.400-.402
.399-.402
.399-.401
.400-.401

[StarMetal]

I have just mesured some boolits that i cast a few nights ago and was a little bumed at what they mesured, they were from two different casting sessions, one at home and one at work.They were cast from a Lee TL401-175 SWC, two banger,I chose this one because I did not want to have to size them. I'm not sure that I had the mold and melt as hot as was needed, but when they started to look good thats were I stoped heating the melt. They were water droped. I guess I was expecting some variation in them but not this bad, so I was thinking that the problem has got to be ME not the equipment. I don't mind remelting and casting again if that is what it takes. BTW this is my first time casting boolits. Any help with this would be wonderful. Thanks, Troy
.398-.406
.400-.402
.398-.408
.398-.404
.402-.407
.399-.402
.398-.409
.399-.406
.400-.402
.399-.402
.399-.401
.400-.401

Not the right temperature but more important probably not a steady tempo in casting. You have to develop a cadence especially with an aluminum mould because it dissipates heat a lot faster then iron.

Joe

[HeavyMetal]

Hope I can help.

First your going to have to reduce your variables the first being heat.

You didn't say but I think your using some type of gas stove to melt your lead? The trick with this technique is to have a magic marker and a thermometer. Heat your alloy unitil you get to a specific temp, say 725 degrees for WW metal, and mark your dial so you can always return to this setting for casting in the future. This marking will also help you if you decide you need more or less heat for future casting.

Adjusting your heat by "eye" is never going to work while casting! Each temp change will alter the as cast diameter of your boolits, at least within the parameter of the cavity your using.

Bottom line here pick a temp for your alloy hit it and then cast!

Same with an electric pot but they should be already marked.

Now you should have been pre heating your mold either by having it close to your heat source sitting on a hot plate, what ever.

Before you cast your first boolit dip the front base area of the mold in the alloy until lead don't stick to it! Then dip the sprue plate, the end you hit to open it, in the alloy until lead don't stick to it!

Now cast! You will have to dip both the mold and the plate every 5 or 6 casts to maintain and even temp in the mold but this should get you consistant boolits. Do not rush the cooling of the sprue, at least not now. You need to learn the basic's here and Patience is a Virtue in casting. The sprue should feel like breaking when you twist the plate opent if it doesn't the alloy hasn't coled enought to open and you'll lead smears.

Now you'll have a better idea of what they come out of the mold at. Do not be surprised if they are much largere than you think they should be!

Lee tuble lube molds are a great idea on paper, in practice I'd say you chances of being able to use a TL mold as cast are 50-50 hopefully better.

Let us know if this helps!

[sqlbullet]

I have to think with some of those really big ones, the mold wasn't completely closed either. Perhaps a spec of lead or other debris had gotten in the vent lines.

Couple of other questions to help folks here...What alloy? Were they round, or out of round? If they were out of round, do the numbers above indicate two measurements on the same bullet?

I agree that cadence is probably part of your issue. It usually is for new casters.

Also, with regard to water dropping...That probably will make bullets too hard for your purpose. I have that exact mold, plus a 6-banger of the same design. I use them to cast for my 10mm. I find water dropped bullets too hard for all but the heavy 10mm loads. Your mileage may vary.

[troy7769]

I am using a Lee bottom pour pot, pure WW, nothing added. They are out of round, measured them by turning them in the caliper. the numbers are the smallest and largest on same boolit.

[troy7769]

I did preheat the mold at first but it was taking forever for the lead to cool so i could drop it so i let it cool down a bit. That was Bad huh? i found that i was smearing the lead every once in a while so i cooled it then to. Bad huh?

[StarMetal]

So many crazy ideas out there. You don't have to dip your mould in the pot every 5 or 6. You just have to cast fast enough and keep the tempo to keep that mould at a certain temperature range.

Joe

[atr]

+1 for all of the above.....
cadance, tempo is important,,,,you have to have a rhythm and a consistant pattern
consistant pattern such as tempt, when to add material to the pot, when to flux etc.
dipping your mold into the mix....yup crazy

I still ladle pour my boolits, yup slower but thats the way I like it
...since you are using a bottom pour I would suspect that you are casting too fast.

[geargnasher]

Lee moulds are often a real pain to get to close properly, especially when they get up to temperature. Check after EACH closure the air gap against a light before you swing the sprueplate closed. Terribly out-of-round boolits are common with my Lee moulds because of this unless I take a pair of channel-lock pliers and force the blocks completely closed.

Gear

[StarMetal]

If you tune the Lee mould and lubricant those mating V lockup's you shouldn't have to squeeze your blocks together with a pair of channel locks. Heck this is suppose to be fun and fast. Isn't there a Lee mould tune up sticky?

Joe

[243winxb]

398-.409

Should not be out of round by more than .003" You need to go here http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/faq/index.cgi and read under

Molds, Melters and Casting

Not sizing your bullets in never a good idea for accuracy, as you can see by the wild diameters you listed.

[HeavyMetal]

First, and this is important, nothing in casting is ever the same all the time!

My "tip" to dip the mold was to help a newbie get an even mold temp as quickly as possible.

Cadence come with practice ( Patience is a Virtue) if the product is scrap from the get go beginners have a tendency to give up! By slowing the newbie down he learns, he develops rythum, and then he gets faster.

Maybe he even learns to spell.

Helping the new guy slow down and take his time should allow him to determine a correct boolit diameter, more importantly he may be able to determine if the mold is faulty, a strong possibliity.

Casting faster is only going to give him a headache until he knows whats wrong, if anything, with the mold.

[gon2shoot]

As you've heard, rythym and consistancy make a difference in a run.

What I want to know is, how the heck do you get to cast at work?

[randyrat]

Well, i think there are a couple of variables that can change the final diameter of a bullet casting. Mold temp, Alloy temp, the alloy and of course a speck of something in the mold face. ( thats the case with a couple of your bullets)

You didn't mention what you where using. Your mold is casting kinda small for a 40 cal bullet. My quess you were using some range scrap that had a lot of pure lead in it.
BTW....The harder the alloy the larger the bullet....

To get your mold up to temp quick::::: Start out with your melt good and hot... Open the sprue plate and pour 10 sets throw them back..Close the sprue pour a few more sets, throw them back...Now start pouring your bullets and they should be consistant.
Your mold using WWs with a good and hot mold should throw them at about .402 maybe .403

Example of a hot mold= When you have to wait 10 seconds or more for the sprue puddle to cool. (I use a fan or a wet cloth to cool my mold down so i can cast quicker.)

[Bret4207]

Should not be out of round by more than .003" You need to go here http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/faq/index.cgi and read under Not sizing your bullets in never a good idea for accuracy, as you can see by the wild diameters you listed.

I'm sorry, but with all due respect, that's just wrong. The poster in this thread has some issues he needs to address, but any sizing done is a chance for the boolit to be damaged. The perfect boolit would be the one that falls from the mould at the size we need and as close to round as possible. Any time we size a boolit appreciably we're sizing it a tiny bit more on one side than the other. Do some measuring and you'll find the more you size a boolit the more you create problems.

I thought the same as you until I read an article by Al Miller, "Cutting them down to size" IIRC, and by doing a little work I found he was right.

[troy7769]

Thinks everyone, so far I think, Rythym and consistancy, more heat, faster tempo, consistant pattern, check that the blocks are tight, try droping w/ no water, is my problem. LOL I realy do thank all of you that has posted to help.

Gon2shoot: I drive a fire truck. 24 on 48 off

Heavymetal: Spelling is not my strong point, sorry. You did good reading it though.

Thanks again floks, I am going right now and put the good info to use, I will post later to let you know how it goes. Troy

[HeavyMetal]

Troy:
I was actually making fun of my spelling. If you can't poke fun at yourself lifes not fun!

[troy7769]

Heavy:
I agree, it didn't upset me in the least. Sorry if you took it that way. Trying to be funny on a forum is tricky for me, that was, what i was doing.
Troy

[MtGun44]

Go to the link at the bottom of the page for Bull Shop, buy some Bull Plate Lube and use
it on the top of the mold, alignment pins and the angled end aluminum alignment features on
the molds, and espcially on the bottom of the sprue plate.

This will stop the lead smearing and help you close the mold more consistently.

Nothing better out there, just order some and you will be saving yourself a lot of hassle.

Not making any money off of this, just passing along info on a great product that is near
mandatory for Lee molds and really excellent on all the others.

Bill

[geargnasher]

Go to the link at the bottom of the page for Bull Shop, buy some Bull Plate Lube and use
it on the top of the mold, alignment pins and the angled end aluminum alignment features on
the molds, and espcially on the bottom of the sprue plate.

This will stop the lead smearing and help you close the mold more consistently.

Nothing better out there, just order some and you will be saving yourself a lot of hassle.

Not making any money off of this, just passing along info on a great product that is near
mandatory for Lee molds and really excellent on all the others.

Bill

++1 MtGun. Bullplate or a good silicone die lube are as essential as handles on Lee moulds to make them cast.

Starmetal Joe, I know this is supposed to be fun, and it is when the tools one uses work anywhere near the way they are supposed to. I've almost completely sworn off of Lee moulds (all I have ever used are 2-cavity) because they are such junk. I can't count the hours I've spent with a lens and scribe and fresh razor blade detailing the blocks until they work, taking out the sprueplate screw, blocking the plate and bevelling the closing edge, drilling and tapping for the sprueplate pivot screw setbolt and piece of #6 shot, blocking the top of the blocks, peening the hinge pin, polishing the alignment pin cavities, etc, and then lapping the cavities with Bon Ami and water until they actually drop boolits instead of having to beat them out with a hickory mallet. Then they still have to be fiddled with to get them to close properly when casting. Maybe I just have terrible luck with them, most of the ones I have are less than 2 years old. When I am patient they make really good boolits, but give me iron or steel or brass any day and I am much happier.

Gear