Hodgdon data,Seems warm?

[RU shooter]

I was leafing through my older Hodgdon #26 manual for some 35 Rem data with 200 gr (J) bullets found a few loads I may try using H335 as I usually use 3031. Then I got back to the sillywet section and they have listed 41 grs of 322 vel. of 2120 fps!!!!Seems kinda warm especially since that is from a 14" TC,The data in the rifle section listing H335 39 grs max vel. of only 2057 fps. from a 20" barrel,H322 isn't even listed in the rifle section I usually load a little over max anyways with the 3031 as I am shooting a Rem 600and thats where the accuracy spot is for it ,But still seems like thats alot of H322 for the 35 with a 200 br bullet . So how can this be almost 75 more fps. from a 6" shorter barrel???If the H322 load is within pressure levels seems to me that the slower H335 would be loaded above the faster H322. Can anyone explain to me why theres such a difference and why the faster powder is listed 2 grs higher than the slower.


Thanks,Tim

[wiljen]

The H335 data for 45-70 in the latest hodgdon annual seems very warm to me. This is all the more reason to consult as many sources as possible, mistakes do happen.

[Tom308]

I have also noticed some unusual figures in the Hodgdon's 2006 Annual Manual. At least once there was a charge listed in the pistol section with the same charge for rifles but with a much higher velocity. I don't usually load hot so I just disregarded it. I don't recall the load off hand but it seemed to be a mistake. I just didn't use the charge and forgot it. I take ALL loading data with a grain of salt. I also stay away from maximum charges. With so many loads, it doesn't surprise me.

I think I found the mistake. It's a load for .357 magnum with 180 grain bullets. Same velocity for 18.5 inch barrel and10 inch barrel with same powder charge. Pages 104 and 125.

[35remington]

Since that data was published H322 has changed manufacturers, and the data will vary considerably in that time. If you'll look at the sanctioned data for H322 for 200 grain bullets from other sources, including Hodgdon's online manual, you'll find it's considerably lower.

However, the data isn't unprecedented with Hodgdon alone. Sierra listed a very similar load with a 200 RN for the Contender some years back. Since then, things have changed with Hodgdon.

For example, Hodgdon goes to 33.8 grains for a mild under 2000 fps load in rifle length barrel. The problem with the load is that it doesn't fill the case very well, and it's position sensitive to a high degree.

It is very likely that the Contender data was not developed with a pressure barrel, but rather by judging the opening effort and behavior of the Contender action (or very possibly in the XP-100 action which is very strong) which would allow somewhat higher pressures than the rather low SAAMI spec for the 35 Remington. This is where the discrepancy comes from that you are wondering about. The difference may be up to 10,000 psi, SAAMI spec versus "judging" loads in the Contender, which will allow pressures higher than SAAMI to be used in it with no issues.....at least until about the 46,000 psi mark. Beyond this, the Contender gets balky and will show it with increased extraction effort due to the slight "springing" of the frame on firing.

Now, regarding the Contender data......I have an original pre-G2 frame Contender with Bullberry barrel throated a bit long, that will accept 42 grains! H322 under a Hornady 180 SSP bullet seated out. This load just passes the Contender test of easy extraction with no noticeably increased effort on opening the action or increased resistance when the extractor does its thing. The long throating is very helpful in this and wouldn't be acheivable without it. I'm getting right around 2300 fps from a 15 inch barrel with muzzlebrake, granting about 14 1/8 inches of barrel travel before the bullet hits the first brake ports. Is the load SAAMI spec? No way in hell! I am sure I'm operating around 40,000 psi or a bit more, well above the 35 Remington's 33,500 psi SAAMI spec, and the limit of the standard Contender frame.

The 180 Speer will get 2350 fps when 38 grains H322 is used in the 20 inch Marlin and the bullet is crimped in the cannelure. Obviously it won't take the load the Contender will, even though the Marlin action can take heavier loads than the standard Contender frame by a little bit. This is a case capacity and seating out the bullet thing as well.

For 200 grain RN bullet use and assuming a shorter throat, for the Contender pistol you should top out at more like 38 grains. My testing with the RCBS 200 FN GC and 38.0 H322 got just over 2000 fps (around 2030 fps) and no issues with pressures that I could discern. With the 200 Remington Core-Lokt, the best of the jacketed 200 roundnoses, you'll essentially duplicate 35 Remington factory load performance from rifle length barrels (20 inches). That's a good thing and makes the 35 Remington pistol an excellent hunting tool.

Eventually I'll switch over to the G2 format for increased durability, so pressure issues will become less of a problem with the more rigid frame. Still, it is reassuring to know the standard Contender frame will digest these loads.