homemade lubrisizer

[Doby45]

I prefer your design to the one in post #58. What are you looking at as far as price point? Is this something in the $50 realm? It would need to be to make a mark on the market, but I would pay $100 for one personally.

[scrapcan]

If someone has one to show pictures of a Pitzer sizer and look at the lube control for it.
It could be adapted to the press mounted style.

here is a link to an old thread.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ghlight=pitzer

[KTN]

Hope I havn't stepped on anyones toes --- as far as scarfing ideas or such --- sometimes I do that without realizing it

I will continue to brainstorm on this --- and when I think Ive got it all figured out and no one else is building them --- then Ill eventually build a couple of them myself if necessary --- but with me eventually can be a long time

tommygirlMT,

No problem, not atleast with my toes. I'm wearing my steeltoed workboots .

Have I mentioned lately why I like this place ? In here ideas and knowledge are shared between members.

Your animation on my sizer working is spot on.
Keep up the good work.


Kaj

[MaxJon]

Cant take all --- or quite frankley --- any credit at this point even though I would love too --- KTN gave me the idea of the sliding valve with his design --- havnt actually built anything yet just thinking and a doodling in .gif animator.

Here is how as I understand it KTN's setup works --- very good --- but as he mentioned if the boolit sizes hard it can lift the sizing die before the ram tops out and sqirt lube on inbetween the boolits and get all over the boolit nose:



Ass with any lubra-sizer with a valve set-up to make sure the lube die is only pressurized when a boolit is in position to be lubed --- there is no need for a pump or metering chamber --- just drop a pancake piston in and hook an air feed to top with a pressure regulator to adjust the pressure to just right

Any change of getting some closer pictures of how the rotary valve works on your setup Jimmy?

Ever thought of makig one to suit Lyman/rcbs sizing dies???
BB03

[JIMinPHX]

Any change of getting some closer pictures of how the rotary valve works on your setup Jimmy?

I'm not going to be able to get into my shop until this weekend, so I can't snap any new pictures right this moment.

I do have some of my early sketches in front of me though, & I was able to chop out a few pieces that show the valve parts from the first version. Basically, it's just a cross drilled rod with a few o-rings & an exit hole in the nose. All you need is a little linkage to turn the valve 90 degrees when the ram on your press goes up.

Those GIFs you made look very nice. Would you mind letting me know where you got the software you used to generate them & how long it took you to become proficient with it?

[JIMinPHX]

My later versions use a push valve that was triggered by the handle of the press coming up & pushing on a bar that went across the front of the main housing block. I built it, but I never finished drawing it. That's what the passage above the threaded area on the base block in the drawing above was used for. A spring loaded reciprocating plunger went in there.

I have another version thought up, but not yet drawn or built. I still have a lot of improvements that I want to make & I think that I know how I want to make that happen. I just need to work out the details.

[Grendl]

concept in post #51 and reservoir in #59 make excellent sense and would be much simpler to construct. Thank you for sharing this

[KTN]

Just got an idea . What about my original idea on lube flow control turned upside down?
Lube valve is open when die is in its down position, on top weak return spring that lets die rise up before boolit sizes down. When die rises lube flow is cut off, next boolit is sized and lube groove is lined with lubeholes, previous lubed boolit is pushed up and when spring pushes die back down, lube flows to groove. With properly positioned lube holes it would be possible to lube boolits twice on single pass through sizer.


Kaj

[PatMarlin]

I drew up some ideas on something along those lines 4-5 years ago, but was trying to do it with a modified LEE sizer die, and single stage press which would be cool if you could adapt it to work with those.

[tommygirlMT]

Just got an idea . What about my original idea on lube flow control turned upside down?
Lube valve is open when die is in its down position, on top weak return spring that lets die rise up before boolit sizes down. When die rises lube flow is cut off, next boolit is sized and lube groove is lined with lubeholes, previous lubed boolit is pushed up and when spring pushes die back down, lube flows to groove. With properly positioned lube holes it would be possible to lube boolits twice on single pass through sizer.


Kaj

I was basically trying to say something like that in post #50 but was doing it with words instead of pictures --- which for me especially --- are an inferior form of communication unles I really work at the words part and take a lot of time re-reading --- proofing --- rereading --- spell check --- reread --- grammer check --- reread --- punctuation check --- reread --- check sentence structure --- reread ----------- AWWWwww Heck you get the idea!!!!

Only was thinking --- AGAIN THINK LIKE TOGGLE SWITCH DESIGNATIONS --- dont make it off/on (your original set-up) or on/off (the set-up your thinking of now) --- make it off/on/off and then unless you run into rare situation where sizing spring force and amount of force required to size a particular boolit is almost exactly the same it will work either way --- you only need to make another die and punch set with the length of the die increased and hole re-positioned to make your existing unit work as an off/on/off to cuts off the flow of lube at both all the way up and all the way down and lets it flow inbetween --- new punch to match up with new size die (repositioned lube hole) --- and mabey change spring strength on the top end or adjust clearances up there --- basically though its just a different size-die/punch set to change over

Here are two more animated .gif --- both have the exact same components making up the sizer which has an off/on/off vertical slider valve --- the first shows what happens when the spring is stronger then the force needed to size boolit --- the second shows what happens when the force needed to size boolit is more then the spring force --- EITHER WAY IT WORKS --- plus you don’t have to worry about lube leaking all over if you forget to put the first boolit in before you pressurize the lube or leave it sitting pressurized for a while sitting at the bottom of its stroke like you might have to with an on/off set-up:

[JIMinPHX]

I drew up some ideas on something along those lines 4-5 years ago, but was trying to do it with a modified LEE sizer die, and single stage press which would be cool if you could adapt it to work with those.

I thought about basing my little gizmo on the Lee dies rather than the Lyman dies. That would require a hole to be drilled in the side of the Lee die. I had figured that if I included a drilling fixture with the rest of the gizmo, then I could do it.

I have mostly Lyman dies, so I went back to using them.

[JIMinPHX]

Here are two more animated .gif --- both have the exact same components making up the sizer which has an off/on/off vertical slider valve --- the first shows what happens when the spring is stronger then the force needed to size boolit --- the second shows what happens when the force needed to size boolit is more then the spring force --- EITHER WAY IT WORKS --- plus you don’t have to worry about lube leaking all over if you forget to put the first boolit in before you pressurize the lube or leave it sitting pressurized for a while sitting at the bottom of its stroke like you might have to with an on/off set-up:

I think that if you moved the lube feed tube down a bit so that it lined up with the lube groove of the boolit when it was in the fully down position, then you would have a winner there. That way, the lube could flow into the lube groove the entire time that the ram was down rather than for just the 1 second when the boolit was passing the lube feed tube.

[Doby45]

I still prefer your original design. The above design does not use "standard" sizing dies and the mechanics still are not as simple and straight forward as the design Tommygirl posted in post #58.

[PatMarlin]

I tried to find my drawings but they weren't on this computer. I got them somewhere.

[KTN]

I think that if you moved the lube feed tube down a bit so that it lined up with the lube groove of the boolit when it was in the fully down position, then you would have a winner there. That way, the lube could flow into the lube groove the entire time that the ram was down rather than for just the 1 second when the boolit was passing the lube feed tube.

JIMinPHX said just what I was trying to say with my bad English.
Made paper model to show it better.

In this picture is what it looks like before next boolit is sized. Both boolits in die are lined with lubeholes and lube pressure is on.



This shows next boolit being pushed into die. Spring on top (not pictured) lets sizerdie rise up, cutting off lube flow, before boolit is sized.



Here new boolit is sized and lined up with lubeholes, lubeflow still off.



And this is what happens on down stroke. Spring pushes sizerdie back down, lube pressure on both boolits.



Not as clear presentation as TommygirlMT's animation, but hope you all get the idea.
Would propably need to cut groove inside sizerdie, between lubeholes, to let trapped air escape from lube groove. Basepunch lenght would be easy to adjust with washers, but sizerdie would need to be made to fit specific boolit, atleast with double lube pressure idea.


Kaj

[tommygirlMT]

KTN --- I get what your saying (and did before as well) --- lube flow "on" when die is down --- lube flow "off" when die is up

I just think that if you set it up that way your going to have a leak problem --- with the pressure on continuously --- when the mechinsm is "at rest" you stop for a moment to take a drink from your beer --- and then turn back to the sizer and start again and in that time the lube leaked a little on the bottom of the boolit and a little on the top of the boolit and for the next half dozen boolits or so --- lube goop smeared all over the noses as the leakage gets worked out of the die --- even worse if you get up and walk away for a few minutes to wash your hands and get a quick snack or something else like that --- setting up any kind of machinery with a "constant on" / "momentary off" set-up is just asking for one kind of problem or another due to operator distraction or inattention

That said --- I get what your saying --- and mabey if you keep things nice and tight and keep the lube pressure low --- you wont have any leak problems

Doubt you need to set up a set-up like that to lube the boolits twice ---Me thinks they will get plenty of time with the lube pressure on at the bottom of the stroke to fill them up all the way --- as I said Im worried about leak problem not a insufficient fill out problem with that kind of set-up

For a single lube station set-up you can use everything as you have it now with just a new die with the lube holes drilled a little lower to invert the valve action and the spring at the top swapped out for a lighter spring weight one --- Id do up another animated .gif and post it since its only like a five to ten minute modification of the existing file but Ive got somewhere I've got to be at 9 and with the weather like it is right now that means I should have left at 8 and its already ten after so Ive got to scedaddle

[tommygirlMT]

KTN --- here is an animation for your sizer operating with a single set of lube holes with the lube holes spaced to turn on lube flow on the bottom of stroke and turn off lube when a boolit is pressed into the die (light spring on top) ---

I prefer your design to the one in post #58. What are you looking at as far as price point? Is this something in the $50 realm? It would need to be to make a mark on the market, but I would pay $100 for one personally.

I was thinking something in the $100-$150 range direct to customer vender sponser type sale --- basically something that won't cost you any more then a new Lyman/RCBS but will hold its own with a star ($250) --- and is stronger and more rugged then any lube sizer commercially made because it is mounted in a reloading press like the lee dies that size only and dont lube

Your own signiture line "Good, Cheap, Fast: Pick two." pretty much explains the situation

If you were willing to give up a little bit of versatility and have something that only used star type dies --- and didn't use a bigger size die that would allow addapters to be cut allowing the use of all three main lube size die type (Star --- Lyman/RCBS --- Saco) plus allow the lube sizing of bigger diameter boolits then any commercial lube sizer will do --- and allow the lube sizing of longer boolits then a star can handle through the use of the bigger die size itself instead of just using it as an adapter socket

And were willing to give up the speed advantage of an automatic press ram activated lube valve --- and instead were willing to just use an off the shelf $10 pluming type ball valve to manually turn the lube off and on and do a little work to set up the lube reservor and the plumbing yourself --- then you could go pretty cheap --- mabey even all the way down to your $50 mark even as a "one off" project instead of a group buy quantity purchase without too much trouble having someone like Buckshot or one of the other helpful machinist goo-roos on this forum make up only these three fairly simple components for you:



That would be a 7/8x14 thread die body to hold star type push through dies underneath the press head with a simple drilled and NIP standard pipe thread tapped hole in the side for lube injection --- a simple Lee type flat punch to snap into the shell holder slot on the ram --- and a simple pancake piston with two O-ring grooves to fit into a 1" diameter iron pipe

Add to that:
--- Two O-rings to fit your pancake piston and a short bolt to attach a string too for pulling it back out to refill lube underneath
--- One 6" length of 1" black iron pipe male threads on both ends
--- Two 1" iron pipe female threaded caps
--- Drill and tap for 1/4" NIP threads
--- 1/4" NIP ball valve
--- Assorted 1/4" pipe fittings including air line type quick disconnect/connect units if desired

Make the lube reservor out of the 1" pipe length and two caps (it would take 1x4 solid lube sticks like available from white label lube that are used in Star) drilling and tapping the both caps the top one for air pressure in and the bottom one for lube out --- plum the air and lube lines so that with the addition of your air compressor and reloading press you end up with basically an improved "Pope type" lube sizer that works like this:













I also thought of a good way to set up the bottom base punch part of my own sliding lube valve design --- make the big ring that contacts the outer valve just a simple donut cut from plate steel with the center hold in that donut the same diameter as the stop ring diameter on standard Lyman top punches --- then make the part that snaps into the shell holder slot on the top of the press ram with a top diameter that is that same diameter and is center drilled the diameter of the stems on Lyman top punches --- then you can just use a simple flat end Lyman type top punch flipped upside down (like sold by acurate molds for $2 each http://www.accuratemolds.com/topPunch.php as your push through punch with the donut cut from plate steel dropping down around that whole assembly and you can add washers under the plate steel donut to reduce the effective punch length or add washers under the punch to increase the effective punch length --- plus you can drop in a regular Lyman top punch and size base first if desired which some people find helps with gas checks --- especially the PB gas checks that Pat Marlin's tool makes where people are running the boolits through the Lee push through dies base first to swag the check onto the boolit base













And I also did up another animation of my idea with a little more detail and clarification --- also made it a "Junior design" that just uses Star dies only and goes in the smaller 7/8x14 thread rather then the big 1-1/4x12 bushing thread with the bigger dies that can be used both to allow addaption to all other sizer dies and allow bigger and longer boolits then normal as previously discussed --- figure some would be just fine and dandy with a slightly smaller version for 7/8x14 thread that only takes star dies --- so making/offering both a Jr. and full size version model may be a good plan














Anyway --- that is what has been rattling around in my head since I was last on this forum a couple days ago --- lets keep the brain storm idea pool going

[Charlie Sometimes]

Now yer talking!
A Junior would suit my needs fine, and I like the last GIF idea best.

Make it so you could use a boolit catch bucket like Lee uses for their push-thru sizers and you would be done.

[Doby45]

This is my fav but I would go ahead with the fullsize threaded portion instead of the thinner threaded portion. I think it will just add to the durability. On a press like my breech lock I could just put it on without the breech sleeve.

[Lonerider]

Ok....Where do I add my name to the list of future pruchasers!!!!

As I get older, I am getting into; 'the simplier....the better' way of thinking.

I work with leather, repairing saddles and bridles and such. I have a cast iron 'Boss' leather, hand operated stiching machine. It will stich leather up to
3/4" thick. Works great! I am currently in the market for an Adler, hand cranck shoe patching machine, to do more intrique work and repair on hunting packs/pantiers and such.

I like the idea of not having to spend any more on electricity than I have too. May not be as fast as high volume production shops, but I like to believe my end product is just as good and maybe better, becuase of my personal labor involve. More quality control.

As I have been following this thread with interest, I would like to chime in with the idea of providing different modles at different stages.

For me, it would be the Jr. size to go on my single stage, cast iron press, with the 7/8 x 14 threads. But instead of automated using air, hydraulics, or whatever, I am in favor of just simple, easy going manual affair.

I currently use the Lee push thru sizer for 4 different calibers and I love it. What would be better, would to be able to use the push thru sizer and be able to lube the grooves. For me, whether its using a lube stick or some sort 'mush' filled in a pot and use a plunger to push thru the system would work for me and my interests.

What I like about CB, is becuase of the attitude of helping each other succeed, even if we do not benefit from the efforts personally. I see this going on in this thread and it is very encouraging to me.

If this does somehow come to fruitation.....I want to be first in line.

Lonerider