Sporter accuracy at 100 with boolits?

[MikeSSS]

What would be good hundred yard accuracy for a sporter weight rifle using cast boolits?

I'm thinking of a Savage 16 FSS in .308 for a cast boolit general shooting rifle.

Shot the 16 FSS for the first time today, here's a link to the results. The details are in that post. I'm pretty darned pleased.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...300#post702300

This rifle was used but almost un-used. After the magazine follower/spring were removed and the action screws tightened there was contact between the barrel and it's channel in the stock. The tang was close to the stock too but without contact. I relieved the barrel channel and the tang channel for generous clearence and then shot it with cast of course.

[joeb33050]

With a decent scope at 6 power or more, with adjustment to eliminate parallax; and a reasonable benchrest bag setup; and carefully made cartridges:
AVERAGES of five 5-shot 100 yard groups under 2" is easy.
Averages of around 1 1/2" is a little more difficult.
Averages consistently under 1 1/2" are possible.
Here's how:
7.4 THE SEARCH FOR CAST BULLET ACCURACY

This first describes a method of achieving reasonable accuracy that I define as reliably repeatable sets of five 5-shot groups averaging less than 2” at 100 yards.
It is not the ONLY recipe, it may not be the BEST recipe, but it is a recipe that will work.
The Steps
The shooter should be familiar with reloading, willing to learn how to cast bullets, and own or be prepared to buy the necessary equipment and to carefully cast, load, shoot and record the results. (Much used reloading and casting equipment is available at various shooting forums or auction sites.) The three editions of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbooks and any edition of their Reloading Handbook are of great help.
The gun: a commercial non-military bolt-action 30-caliber rifle, such as a recent Savage, Remington, Winchester or Ruger in very good condition. This method explains how to find the innate accuracy that the rifle has; it does not pretend to make a greatly worn or damaged inaccurate rifle shoot well.
With a new rifle, make sure that:
There is no obvious bedding or barrel problem.
Sights are mounted solidly and correctly.
Screws are tight.
New rifle barrels may be "broken in" by the owner. Instructions and opinions of cast bullet barrel break in abound and conflict. I have no opinion, and just shoot any new barrel.
With a used rifle, make sure that:
There is no obvious bedding or barrel problem
Sights are mounted solidly and correctly
There is no damage to the muzzle crown
Screws are tight
The barrel is clean, no copper or other fouling is in there
The sight/s: a telescopic sight of at least 6 power, preferably with an adjustment to eliminate parallax, or, as a more expensive and less desirable alternative, a set of good aperture iron sights.
The caliber: 30/06 Springfield or 308 Winchester
The bullets: Lyman 311299 or 314299, of good quality, gas checked, sized correctly, lubed with a good commercial lubricant.
The powder: IMR 4227. The charge must be appropriate for the cartridge and bullet. Lower velocity loads from the Lyman 48th Reloading Handbook should be used.
The bench rest equipment and technique must be adequate to allow precision shooting.
Meticulous records must be kept of all casting, loading and shooting information.
Some Notes:
The Bullets
Cast the bullets from wheel weights with maybe a little tin added. Visually inspect the bullets, re-cycle the rejects. Weight sort the bullets if you wish.
(The following steps require a Lyman 45 or 450 or 4500 lubrisizer, RCBS or Saeco lubrisizer or Lee Lube and Size kit.)
Seat the gas checks in a separate operation.
Size the bullets to the correct diameter.
Lubricate the bullets with a good commercial lube, such as NRA Alox lube. No homemade lubes!
Fitting the bullets to the gun
The 311299 and 314299 bullets are about 200 grains with bore riding noses. The 314299 bullets are a bit larger than 311299s, the noses are larger in diameter, and, until sized, the base bands are larger.
Both bullet molds today are 2 cavity. Mark the cavities so that you can tell which cavity the bullets came from. There is always a difference in bullet weight and some dimensions from one cavity to the other.
Cast bullets are not round, and dimensions of the as cast nose and base bands show this. I cannot ever recall a bullet with dimensions +/- a tenth, (.0001”), and normally 3 or 4 or more tenths difference is the rule.

Bullet fit
The sized bullet must fit in an unsized case that has been fired in the gun. If the bullet is too big to be pushed into a fired case by hand, it is too big to be fired safely!
The cartridge should chamber with a bit of resistance.
The bullet should not stick in the chamber when the chambered cartridge is extracted. No de-bulleting!
The base of the bullet should be in the neck, not down inside the case. If just the gas check is below the neck, there’s generally no problem.
The bore-riding nose of the bullet should be engraved by each land of the rifling.
The forward-most end of the front base band should slightly mash into the front end of a tapered free bore or the origin of the rifling.
Increasing the amount of tin and/or antimony in the alloy yield slightly larger bullets.
Sizing the bullet in a lubrisizer makes the nose bump up larger.
Bigger as-cast to sized differences make the nose larger than smaller differences. Size a .314” to .308” and the nose will bump up more than when sizing from .314” to .312”.
Softer bullet noses bump up more than harder bullet noses.
Bullets with base bands sized to different dimensions may/will have different overall lengths.
Rifle barrel lands at the chamber end wear or erode, so that cartridge overall length increases slightly and slowly as the rifle is shot.
If the cartridge that goes in the gun has a lot of base band below the neck, change something.
If the cartridge goes in the gun, has just the gas check in the case mouth and doesn’t engrave the bullet nose, change something.
If both 314299 cavities make bullets too big, go to the 311299. If the 311299 bullets are too small, either the gun or the mold is incorrect.
If both 311299 cavities make bullets that are too small, go to the 314299. If the 314299 bullets are too big, either the gun or the mold is incorrect.

Reloading
Get a set of good cartridge cases from the same lot, at least with the same headstamp.
Full-length size them. (New cases will shorten when fired. Used cases won’t, much.)
Measure the lengths and trim to the same length. (Same length cases are required for proper case mouth “belling” with the “M” die.)
Chamfer the case mouths in and out. (Lee makes inexpensive tools to chamfer case mouths and trim cases to length.)
Bell the case mouths with a Lyman “M” die in a press.
Prime (Lee makes a great and inexpensive priming tool.) Any large rifle primer will work fine.
Cartridge “lot” size is 35, make a set of 35 cartridges for each trial load. (The set of 120 cases allows loading three lots of 35, with thirteen spares.) Just checking.
Charge the cases with powder.

Lyman 48th Edition Reloading Handbook
“308 Win., 311299 at 200 grains
IMR 4227,19.5 grains starting load to 26 grains maximum load”
Start with 18 grains, and then go up in 1-grain steps. Be careful!
“30/06 Springfield, 311299 at 200 grains
IMR 4227, 21 grains starting load to 29 grains maximum load”
Start with 19 grains, and then go up in 1-grain steps. Be careful!

ALWAYS CHECK A PUBLISHED LOAD TO SEE IF IT MAKES SENSE!!!! BELIEVE NO ONE!!!
Inspect the cases with a flashlight to detect “no powder” and “double charges”.
Seat the bullet to the correct overall length.
Shooting
Shoot only on a day with reasonable weather. No hurricanes or blizzards.
Testing a rifle for accuracy requires a solid bench rest on a sold bench, and a good chair or stool. Use a reasonable front and rear rest. Rests can be bought for prices ranging from OK to crazy. I have used a Hoppe’s front rest as well as home made rests, and they all work well.
The target used must work for the shooter-target types, shapes and styles affect group size.
Push a patch through the barrel.
Get comfortable at the bench.
Shoot 3 foulers, and then two 5-shot groups for record in about 15 minutes. Don’t let the barrel get too hot!
Clean the barrel, if necessary. With some load, alloy and lube combinations, accuracy will degrade after some number of shots. (I have experienced group size increases after as few as 13 shots. I have also seen accuracy remain constant over 100 shots. Some experimentation is required to tell when cleaning is needed.)
Shoot 3 foulers, and then two 5-shot groups for record in about 15 minutes. Don’t let the barrel get too hot!
Clean the barrel if necessary.
Shoot 3 foulers, and then ONE 5-shot group for record in about 10 minutes. Don’t let the barrel get too hot!
Clean the barrel if necessary.
You’ve shot five 5-shot groups and 9 foulers for 34 shots. What about the #35 cartridge? If you call a honked shot, you’ll need that #35 cartridge to make the fifth shot in the group.
Recording the data
Write everything down. Write the reloading data down when you reload, and the shooting data on the day you shoot. DON’T WAIT FOR TOMORROW, YOU’LL FORGET SOMETHING!
Write down the powder charge and primer make and lot numbers if you wish and the overall length and bullet # and just everything.
If you pull a shot, honk it out of the group; and if you call it honked before you look through the scope; then take another shot for record. Don’t lie to yourself.
(This article is longer, but won't fit here.)

[Bret4207]

I would define "good" as round groups of under 2.5-3.0" at 100 yards. "Great" would be around 1.5-2.0" and anything under 1.25" is superb. That's for 5 shot groups by a good shooter. Groups of 10 shots or 5 shot groups with unexplained flyers have a different criteria- 10 shot groups will be larger over all, but much more telling of the true capability of the gun , load and shooter. Groups with flyers...well, is it the load, the gun, the boolits or the shooter? Chances are it's one of the last 2.

[WHITETAIL]

Mike, The great thing about reloading and useing cast boolets is.
You can shoot the exact same load in all of your boolets.
What I mean is if you buy boolets off the shelf they may
or may not have the exact same powder, or weight of powder
in each load.

[pdawg_shooter]

If you invest the time to paper patch your bullets, MOA accuracy can be achieved.

[Calamity Jake]

What would be good hundred yard accuracy for a sporter weight rifle using cast boolits?

I'm thinking of a Savage 16 FSS in .308 for a cast boolit general shooting rifle.

The target below shows a 5 shot group shot with my Rem 700 sporter weight in 270, The 9 ring is 1 inch in dia. the load data is on the target. Shot in our monthly P Dog match.
The shot out in the 7 ring was me not the boolit!!



Here another same gon and load

[beagle]

I agree with Joe. Pretty good accuracy if you mess with them a bit. Had a M700 .30/06 that would easily shoot under 1 1/2" at 100 yards with a 311284 and 21 grains of 4759. Would do that until about 15 rounds had gone downrange and the barrel heated up./beagle

[runfiverun]

if it will do under an inch with jacketed it'll go under an inch with cast.
a 3x9 scope on a hunting rig will do it.

[NickSS]

My experience with boolits is that I can get them as accurate or better than the same rifle will shoot Jacketed ones. Case in point my beater 94 Winchester in 30-30 will shoot groups of right around 2 to 2.5 inches for 10 shots with a hand loaded 170 gr JFP bullet. The same rifle shooting a hand loaded 173 gr Lyman 311041 with 18 gr of IMR 4198 consistently will fire 10 shot groups in the 1.5 to 2 inch range. These are shot with a receiver sight and original front bead sight.

[dualsport]

Hey Joe! Thanks for all the great information. Your book helped me advance a lot in this hobby.

[abunaitoo]

Book????
What book????
Sounds like one I'd like to get.
Any info on how I might get one???

[joeb33050]

Book????
What book????
Sounds like one I'd like to get.
Any info on how I might get one???

CAST BULLETS FOR BEGINNER AND EXPERT

The Second Edition is at the site address below, in FILES, free.

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/CB-BOOK

This was produced by well over 140 contributors, and is a non-profit enterprise. All excess $$ goes to the ASSRA archives.

WORD and Adobe Acrobat .pdf copies of the book, with EXCEL workbooks and WORD "UPDATES", on a CD, are available delivered to any country for $5. Everything in the print copy is in the CD, BUT!! the CD has a lot of material that is not in the print copy of the book. I recommend getting the CD if you get the print copy.

Print copies are available at $27, delivered in the USA. Copies to countries outside the USA, including Canada, are $24 plus the postage cost. (Postage to Canada is $13.50, to New Zealand is $23)

For the CD or printed copy send cash, check or M.O. to:
Joe Brennan
11 Sombrero Blvd., #16
Marathon, FL 33050

[MikeSSS]

Thanks guys.