Synthetic Motor Oil for lube?

[geargnasher]

Would this beeswax work?
http://www.walgreens.com/store/catal...sku=sku3458861

For a couple of bucks, its worth trying. If it doesn't work, not a big deal.

Thanks for the encouragement and constructive criticism, this is a great forum to learn from, and hopefully pass on some knowledge too.

I think it is a "preparation" containing beeswax, I can see part of what looks like the ingredients list on the left side and I think one of them is red food coloring. That means it may have water and other things in it, check the label before buying. Many products can fool you into thinking that they are "pure" because the FDA allows one to advertise a product as "100%" if it has no other similar ingredient. If that hair product has 90% petroleum jelly, 5% glycerin, and 5% beeswax it could legally be labeled as "100 % beeswax".

Just food for thought.

Gear

BTW there are couple of members here on the forum that sell real beeswax for about the same price as that stuff and it is, I assure you, good for boolit lube. Not all beeswax is, just ask the Bullshop.

[leadman]

I have been thinking about automotive synthetic lubes also. I dismissed 2 cycle oil as it is designed to burn but maybe wrong doing so. I thought about engine oil, but this also was dismissed due to its migration characteristics.
Being a engine mechanic for many years I was told during training that engine oil is not designed to stay put but does its job by flowing and carrying away the heat with it (simplified version).
What I am going to try is Castrol synthetic grease designed for Ford vehicles among others. This has a higher melting temperature than other greases. Castrol products are commonly sold in the U.S.
Probably won't get to it until after deer and elk seasons.

[59sharps]

Know several BP shoots that use it w/ beeswax.do not remember their mix or what else they are adding. maybe bear fat.

[softpoint]

I thoght of trying the Slick 50 synthetic tube grease several years ago ,but never did. Now this thread has renewed my interest in it. I'd stiffen it up a little with something. I've posted before about trying to find something that would be easy to apply that would be like a paper patch, but I was thinking things that were appied and allowed to dry. If a lube had enough film strength, it might do it.
I'd apply it in the grooves of a lube groove bullet though, to try to prevent it from migrating to the powder.

[StarMetal]

One thing you fellows have to remember and that is you can get a lube too slick. That will destroy your accuracy. Felix will even tell you, for example, don't use a lot of Castor oil.

I mention this to the post of the Slick 50 synthetic grease. May be too much of a good thing.

Joe

[Echo]

If you use enough oil to work, it'll creep into your powder and ruin it. Same if you use automotive grease. The oil creeps out of the grease.

Well, not if it is synthetic, as WFI asked. Synthetic oil doesn't creep - only petroleum oils creep.

[malpaismike]

Hello the camp! Not going to try to recall all I usta know about lubing oils. Many moons ago I worked in research chemistry for Caterpillar. While my main billet was evaluation of elastomers for gasket matl, I also evaluated effects of additives--detergents, ashless dispersants, corrosion inhibitors, etc--on sludge formation. There were other studies reported, but one I participated in nixed the myth that mineral and paraffin oils don't mix; same with 'synthetic' and 'std' oils. Most cases evinced the benefit of sticking with one oil, over time, but the biggest buggaboo of all was overheating--that would sludge up holy water.
In passing, 'synthetic' oil is synthetic only so far as it is processed to produce indentical long-chain polymers, rather than somewhat random polymers in refined oil. The benefits attributed to synoil stem from that standardization. my .02 mm

[StarMetal]

Hello the camp! Not going to try to recall all I usta know about lubing oils. Many moons ago I worked in research chemistry for Caterpillar. While my main billet was evaluation of elastomers for gasket matl, I also evaluated effects of additives--detergents, ashless dispersants, corrosion inhibitors, etc--on sludge formation. There were other studies reported, but one I participated in nixed the myth that mineral and paraffin oils don't mix; same with 'synthetic' and 'std' oils. Most cases evinced the benefit of sticking with one oil, over time, but the biggest buggaboo of all was overheating--that would sludge up holy water.
In passing, 'synthetic' oil is synthetic only so far as it is processed to produce indentical long-chain polymers, rather than somewhat random polymers in refined oil. The benefits attributed to synoil stem from that standardization. my .02 mm

You done a good study. I had to attend school at the oil refinery I worked at in OK. Lots of questions asked. One was about recycled used oil. They said you can't wear oil out. About the only way to ruin it was overheat, essentially burn it.

There is a difference in performance between synthetic and standard oils. Seems to be less friction with synthetic resulting in lower oil temperature in severe circumstances.

Joe

[Ricochet]

Well, not if it is synthetic, as WFI asked. Synthetic oil doesn't creep - only petroleum oils creep.

Try it and see. I doubt that's correct.

[StarMetal]

Try it and see. I doubt that's correct.

I'm glad you posted that John, I was waiting for you to do it. I was going to say the same thing. If synthetic oil didn't seep as well as standard oil, it wouldn't be a good oil would it?

Joe

[Echo]

Try it and see. I doubt that's correct.

It's been done often. My Dad was a watchmaker. Clock and watch oil was made (in the old days) from sperm oil, and was very expensive. Reason for the special oil was that when one placed oil on a pivot, one wanted the oil to stay there and NOT spread all over the movement, and sperm oil doesn't creep. Later (much later!) Dad started using synthetic oil for the same purpose. Cheaper, and worked. I'm sure the clock oil we purchase now is synthetic.

YMMV

[StarMetal]

It's been done often. My Dad was a watchmaker. Clock and watch oil was made (in the old days) from sperm oil, and was very expensive. Reason for the special oil was that when one placed oil on a pivot, one wanted the oil to stay there and NOT spread all over the movement, and sperm oil doesn't creep. Later (much later!) Dad started using synthetic oil for the same purpose. Cheaper, and worked. I'm sure the clock oil we purchase now is synthetic.

YMMV

The replacement for sperm oil was ATF oil. It takes special additives to oil to keep them from seeping. Some such oils are like Lucas oil treatment. If you've seen a gear mechanism in a clear case with hand crank and crank the gears you can very well see how sticky Lucas makes oil.

Joe

[BABore]

I do believe that jojoba oil is the current replacement for sperm whale oil.

As Joe stated, too much lubricant can spoil a boolit lube. It's not about how slick you can make it or iff'in it doesn't lead. It about how accurate it will shoot and keep shooting. Even the best, most accurate boolit lube today, may not be the best when you change temperature, powder, boolit design, gun, or velocity.

[carpetman]

BABore--Jojoba is the replacement for whale sperm?? Guess they have to artificially inseminate the whales though.

[Leadforbrains]

BABore--Jojoba is the replacement for whale sperm?? Guess they have to artificially inseminate the whales though.

I bet thats a lower end job.

[Ricochet]

Mike Rowe's always begging for suggestions for Dirty Jobs...

[dubber123]

Mobil 1 0-W20, (thin stuff), is the slick ingredient in my lube. I can't say it outshoots several other lubes I have tried, LBT Blue Soft, Lyman Super Moly, etc., but it certainly doesn't shoot any worse. It does very well at leading prevention, and seems to protect bores well. I use the same oil for my gun cleaning/stroage lube. It never seems to evaporate.

[softpoint]

So, maybe slick50 tube grease could be too slick by itself, Stiffen it up a little with parrafin or beeswax, would a lube made like that higher film strength that what we are using?

[geargnasher]

The replacement for sperm oil was ATF oil. It takes special additives to oil to keep them from seeping. Some such oils are like Lucas oil treatment. If you've seen a gear mechanism in a clear case with hand crank and crank the gears you can very well see how sticky Lucas makes oil.

Joe

Joe, I'm gonna add my two cents to other posts as well as yours I quoted, so don't get ruffled on me!

I think those special anti-seep additives are made of hopes and dreams. I've made a hard living for a long time now because automotive oils seep, creep, leak, drip, and squeeze through, by, and out of just about everything our finest engineers can design to contain them. The ony instances I've seen where oil stays put is using Mobil 1 to lube bronze pilot bushings. Fill the center up with oil while holding it on one thumb pad and then put your opposite on top, squeeze the ends until the pressurized oil "sweats" out of the pores on the outside of the bushing. The oil won't get on the clutch and lubricates the transmission input for the life of the clutch disc and then some. The only reason the oil stays there is the same reason water stays in a damp sponge, surface tension.

Lucas works by affecting the surface tension of oils, both conventional and synthetic, and work it does. Lucas-treated oils tend to "cling" to parts and not form drips or runs, but it does spread and creep everywhere, it just leaves a thicker coat than untreated oil.

It's kinda neat to play with that parts-counter Lucas oil gear display, but, like most product displays, pretty much useless. The REAL work engine or gear oil does isn't done while hanging from the top of the trasmission housing or hanging out on the bottom side of your idle pistons over the weekend, it's done while being mashed and sheared under hundreds of tons per square inch of force at 2-300* F. That's where VISCOSITY matters more than surface tension, and Lucas, among othere fine additives, really help maintain viscosity at high heat and pressure conditions. Superior performance under these conditions is also what makes the long-polymer synthetics desirable, but I have yet to see one that won't leak. Synthetic engine oils are far more likely to leak past rubber lip-type seals than conventional oils because they don't swell rubber as much as conventional oils do. Teflon seals have been developed in limited application (Corvette engines, for example) to function reliably with the full-synthetic oils these engines require.

I just don't believe there is an oil, clock or otherwise, that won't creep. Even grease creeps over time (no pun intended!!).

Gear

[StarMetal]

Joe, I'm gonna add my two cents to other posts as well as yours I quoted, so don't get ruffled on me!

I think those special anti-seep additives are made of hopes and dreams. I've made a hard living for a long time now because automotive oils seep, creep, leak, drip, and squeeze through, by, and out of just about everything our finest engineers can design to contain them. The ony instances I've seen where oil stays put is using Mobil 1 to lube bronze pilot bushings. Fill the center up with oil while holding it on one thumb pad and then put your opposite on top, squeeze the ends until the pressurized oil "sweats" out of the pores on the outside of the bushing. The oil won't get on the clutch and lubricates the transmission input for the life of the clutch disc and then some. The only reason the oil stays there is the same reason water stays in a damp sponge, surface tension.

Lucas works by affecting the surface tension of oils, both conventional and synthetic, and work it does. Lucas-treated oils tend to "cling" to parts and not form drips or runs, but it does spread and creep everywhere, it just leaves a thicker coat than untreated oil.

It's kinda neat to play with that parts-counter Lucas oil gear display, but, like most product displays, pretty much useless. The REAL work engine or gear oil does isn't done while hanging from the top of the trasmission housing or hanging out on the bottom side of your idle pistons over the weekend, it's done while being mashed and sheared under hundreds of tons per square inch of force at 2-300* F. That's where VISCOSITY matters more than surface tension, and Lucas, among othere fine additives, really help maintain viscosity at high heat and pressure conditions. Superior performance under these conditions is also what makes the long-polymer synthetics desirable, but I have yet to see one that won't leak. Synthetic engine oils are far more likely to leak past rubber lip-type seals than conventional oils because they don't swell rubber as much as conventional oils do. Teflon seals have been developed in limited application (Corvette engines, for example) to function reliably with the full-synthetic oils these engines require.

I just don't believe there is an oil, clock or otherwise, that won't creep. Even grease creeps over time (no pun intended!!).

Gear

Nice post geargnasher. I learned all this stuff at the oil refinery schooling. That plus what I knew before hand and learned afterwards.

On the Corvettes...Chevy killed two birds with one stone. Vettes are exported like most other cars. The ones that went to Germany had to have an oil cooler on them because of the unlimited speed limit on the Autobahn. You run over 100 mph for long periods and oil gets hot fast. Well Chevy engineers knew one of the qualities of synthetic oil was reduced heat. The Mobile 1 oil made the oil cooler unnecessary. So it wasn't as much that the engine required it that type of oil. Some won't believe the heat difference, but I knew a top racer who put a truck into the Baja races. He couldn't keep a rear end in it. They would burn up due to heat from the friction. He tried lots of things. Someone suggested synthetic gear oil to him, which ironically he didn't try because he didn't think such a simple thing as an oil type change would work. Well work it did, in fact the rear end ran cooler then ever. Now an oil engineer I spoke to about running synthetic gear oil in a Borg Warner Super T10 four speed and he told me not to do it. He said that transmission was designed way back went for the old SAE90 gear oil and it's best to run that due to the wide clearances.

Joe