Synthetic Motor Oil for lube?

[geargnasher]

Your sure right about those tall gears, I think it must have been the heat. there is a threshold at which the harmonics of hypoid (or ANY) gears tear themselves up, and those low ratios got up into that on the road. Synthetic lubes have helped that issue dramatically. As far as the Jap stuff? I dunno, Honda and Toyota make the best automobiles on the planet, hands down. best engineering, best metallurgy, period. Galls me to say it, they did their best to kill my grandfather and take over our country once, but it's true.

Condensation is a factor, but mostly on short-trip stuff. If you drive more than 30 minutes once a week to boil it off this shouldn't be much of a factor unless you live in Seattle or someplace like it.

BTW, depending upon what kind of transmission that Honda you mentioned had, the engineers may have been interested in checking their final drive stuff. Some Honda FWD manual and auto trannies had separate oil for geartrain and final drive. Often, the final drive oil was neglected (few mechanics knew to check it/change it separately from the main transmission oil) and it tended to leak out gradually at a case seam, causing dry run damage. Also, Honda pioneered the use of high-efficiency "0" weight automatic transmission oil, the stuff pours like milk. MUCHO research and failure analysis had to be done to effectively understand what would be required to make a tranny work with oil that thin.

boy, I can sure hijack a thread, can't I!

Sorry 'bout that!

Gear

[StarMetal]

Your sure right about those tall gears, I think it must have been the heat. there is a threshold at which the harmonics of hypoid (or ANY) gears tear themselves up, and those low ratios got up into that on the road. Synthetic lubes have helped that issue dramatically. As far as the Jap stuff? I dunno, Honda and Toyota make the best automobiles on the planet, hands down. best engineering, best metallurgy, period. Galls me to say it, they did their best to kill my grandfather and take over our country once, but it's true.

Condensation is a factor, but mostly on short-trip stuff. If you drive more than 30 minutes once a week to boil it off this shouldn't be much of a factor unless you live in Seattle or someplace like it.

BTW, depending upon what kind of transmission that Honda you mentioned had, the engineers may have been interested in checking their final drive stuff. Some Honda FWD manual and auto trannies had separate oil for geartrain and final drive. Often, the final drive oil was neglected (few mechanics knew to check it/change it separately from the main transmission oil) and it tended to leak out gradually at a case seam, causing dry run damage. Also, Honda pioneered the use of high-efficiency "0" weight automatic transmission oil, the stuff pours like milk. MUCHO research and failure analysis had to be done to effectively understand what would be required to make a tranny work with oil that thin.

boy, I can sure hijack a thread, can't I!

Sorry 'bout that!

Gear

Interesting stuff Gear and we're both guilty of hijacking.

Joe

[bruce381]

Hi guys a long time lurker here but I thought I would make a coment here on the "syn lube thread"

Couple of points in no real order:

You can not generalize as in "all synthetics will not work" or 'they are too slippery"

there are 4 or 5 types of mineral oil
and perhaps 20-30 types of synthetic oils

There really is NO standard synthetic type many are used just like many lead alloys.

And generally when quoting the oil/lube type that is for the "Base Oil" only additves are NOT included in this discription.
As in "I used a synthetic motor oil" all the synthetic part denots is the TYPE of BASE oil used of which ther are many as above.

As far as friction reduction goes some syns WILL be "more slippery" than a mineral oil but normally that is the "perfromance additive" that will make those changes.

ANY oil that has an amount of Viscoity index improver such as a multi grade engine oil or a gear oil WILL "shear' down in viscoity in use due to the shearing or braking apart the Viscoity improver like grinding it smaller thus reducing the visocity improvement, gear oils are a good example.

Anyway i like the site and do not want to be a wise guy, thanks to all that post here I learn a lot and laugh to. thanks

bruce
35 years blending, formulating and trouble shooting automotive and industrial lubricants

[geargnasher]

Good points, Bruce, thanks for sharing your knowledge.

I know the syn's aren't "more slippery", but one thing I can say about the synthetic-base oils is they have a much higher film-strength than conventional oils due to the uniform, engineered polymers. That seems to add to the heat life, too.

I don't know if synthetic oil has a place in boolit lube, maybe synthetic grease, but I'm happy with the lubes I use now and my time is best spent playing with things that need improving. (like my trigger squeeze!!).

Gear

[bruce381]

"know the syn's aren't "more slippery", but one thing I can say about the synthetic-base oils is they have a much higher film-strength than conventional oils due to the uniform, engineered polymers. That seems to add to the heat life, too."

generally correct Syns are much more oxidation/heat resistant to mineral oils
in some tests 4 or 5 times longer and have a higher VI or ability to resist thinning as they get hotter compared to a normal mineral oil.

About all I have ever done is make up various gun greases I do use drums of various Alox's (ther are perhaps a dozen or so) but no beeswax LOL.

I do not care for the sticky sweet smell most of them have, anyway
I will go back to lurking.

bruce

[cbrick]

I will go back to lurking. bruce

Why?

Please contribute!

Rick

[StarMetal]

Good stuff in here. For the fellows that aren't into oil, synthetic isn't anything new. The Germans first used it in their aircraft in WWII. Although it's not mineral oil it still indirectly comes from petroleum. Some of the things it's not good for is it doesn't suspend lead as well as mineral oil and that's only important if you're running a leaded gasoline, it's hard on some plastics, it's not recommended for new engine break in because it reduces friction more the a mineral oil needed to wear and seat parts in, it breaks down in some atomospheres in industry that may have certain chemicals in them, they aren't good for some of the older engines that have roller lifters because the rollers don't get rotated with the cam, they slide along, and the aren't recommended in rotary engines...just to name a few.

Joe

[geargnasher]

Why?

Please contribute!

Rick

+1 on that!

Interesting stuff. Alox you say? Tell us more!

Gear

[wellfedirishman]

... than to start a thread combining guns and automobiles! This has generated a lot more discussion than I imagined

Thanks guys for all the info, I have a few 45-70 bullets ready to lube up with castor oil and a bit of synthetic. I'll let you know how it goes when I get to shoot them next week.

[bruce381]

"'Alox you say? Tell us more!"'

Like what? there are about ? 5-10 alox products all from Lubrizol now they bought out the last company to make them.

Most are oxidates which have an affinity for metal that is they will migrate to the metal surface and "push" away water.

They are black waxy and to me smell sweet/sticky.

Most are mixed intio mineral spirts or light oil to make industrial rust inhibitors.

The older now obsolite alox ?? 2318 or whatever was mixed with beeswax for the NRA bullet lube but also was used as a "hot' melt rust inhibitor to protect metal surfaces some of which can take months of salt water spray before the surface will rust that and a great film former/lube.

Sorry this is not a lube thread so if anyone wants PM me and I will try to answer.
bruce

[StarMetal]

"'Alox you say? Tell us more!"'

Like what? there are about ? 5-10 alox products all from Lubrizol now they bought out the last company to make them.

Most are oxidates which have an affinity for metal that is they will migrate to the metal surface and "push" away water.

They are black waxy and to me smell sweet/sticky.

Most are mixed intio mineral spirts or light oil to make industrial rust inhibitors.



The older now obsolite alox ?? 2318 or whatever was mixed with beeswax for the NRA bullet lube but also was used as a "hot' melt rust inhibitor to protect metal surfaces some of which can take months of salt water spray before the surface will rust that and a great film former/lube.

Sorry this is not a lube thread so if anyone wants PM me and I will try to answer.
bruce

The old alox was 2138F and the stuff to replace it is 350 and the difference is the micro-crystalline wax was removed from it.

Joe

[runfiverun]

bruce
as you see threads wander a lot around here.
some of the very best information that has ever been passed along on this board has been waaaay off topic from the original post.
they usually come back to the original or relate to it somehow.

[Ricochet]

I found a Google Books excerpt of a textbook on lubricants and metal coatings that says Alox 606 is "a calcium salt of oxidized vaseline." Sounds like Cosmoline with lime cooked up in it. It's a rust preventative for extended salt spray protection.

[geargnasher]

Actually, Bruce, this IS a lube thread, just Joe and I (mostly me) hijacked it from WellfedIrishman to ramble off-topic.

Pay us no mind...

Gear