use enough gun

[Bullshop]

We got this photo from a customer in Nome. His rifle is a 92 Winchester in 44/40. The boolit he likes best and used for this moose is the Lyman 200gn 44/40 boolit that has been available for a long, long time.
This should make for a very interssting discussion.
Get close and put the shot right where it will do the most good is obviously of greater importance than the cartridge used.

[Bullshop]

Here is the gun and cartridges.

[scrapcan]

Bullshop,

I can not argue one bit. I have a winchester model 64, 30 wcf that belonged to my uncle, and bequethed to me upon his death, that has killed all the legally huntable animals in Wyoming during the time frame of 1954 until 2008 when it came into my possession. I remember many times my uncle saying the hunt was good we saw lots of animals they were just out of range for a good shot.

And the coworker in the office next to me has pictures in his office of buffalo shot with a M94 30-30 carbine (serial number puts it at 1972). His dad and brother had a buffalo ranch in SD and used it to cull when necessary. Granted the buffalo may have been easier to "hunt" than wild game.

[Nrut]

TD rifle configuration at that..

[imashooter2]

You can kill moose with an ice pick. It's just that the margin for error is very small.

Superior skill can provide a buffer for marginal tools.

Superior tools can provide a buffer for marginal skill.

[JeffinNZ]

A "hunter" can take game with what might be considered an out dated combination.

A "shooter" can not.

See where I am heading here?

BTW. I am in some doubt that the recipient is ever the wisher that a cartridge is "obselete". LOL.

[Bullshop Junior]

[MT Gianni]

Nice bull and a nice rifle in the first pic.

Daniel you need to state your height so folks realize how big that is. Nice going, you'll eat well.

[pmeisel]

Quite a hide. Thanks for the pics.

[Bullshop]

Daniel Jr. is about 6'6" now but the guy in the photo with the bison hide is Tony, BS Jrx2.
Tony is a little short guy at about 6'2".
The bull bison hide is from a road kill we got about two weeks ago. The reason we are posting the pic is just the oposite of the moose pic. If you look at the pic of the recovered bullets you see two, a 30 cal and a 50 cal. The bull's wounds from being shot had completely healed. That big one is from a 50 BMG that had raked through the left flank from rear to front and was found loged in the left sholder. The 30 cal bullet was loged in the neck just behind the axas joint. I repeat that this bull had completely healed from the gun shot wounds and was killed by a car when crossing the AK hiway.
Use enough gun indeed!
My neighbor has a bison farm here and a sister farm on Kodiak Island. He just got some pictures from the sister farm where they have just very recently taken an 11" 1900 lb brown bear. I hope to get the pics to post here.
Use enough gun, INDEED!
BIC/BS

[Bullshop Junior]

That buffalo took it hard.
First a 50 BMG Armer peircing,
Then some kind of a 30 cal,
Then it got hit buy a chevy yukon,
And it was still alive. The guy that got it out of the road cut the thoat.

[TDC]

A perfect analogy of an issue many of us try to confront.. Thanks, Bullshop!!

Many years ago I hunted often with a professional taxidermist. He would see many animals come through his shop with healed bullet wounds. The most common in my area were black bears that appeared to have been wounded during an earlier hunting season and their wound had completely healed up. The second most common were elk that had survived a wound and lived another day. Deer most commonly don't survive even superficial wounds and fall prey to hunger or predators..

Most of the animals with wounds were obviously shot with inadequate calibers that had poor penetration and/or were poorly placed shots. When we consider the category of huge bull moose and Grizzlies the use of inadequate calibers just compounds the risk of wounded game.

Where I hunt elk I often cross trails that were left by large herds. In almost every instance I will find several dripping blood trails in the snow left by different wounded animals from those herds. It's obvious those wounded animals are going to suffer at least through the winter they will soon be trying to survive in.

I'm sometimes amazed to see how little respect some people have for these magnificent larger animals we hunt. Some people commonly display that disrespect by attempting to use a firearm and caliber so inadequate it can almost assure a wounding result.

Please.... use an appropriate caliber for what you'll be hunting. If you don't like a larger calibers recoil and noise ..... hunt some smaller animal and don't let your own deficiencies or inadequacies leave a suffering animal in the woods....

Thanks for the example, Bullshop! We need more people with "real world" hunting experience to document their observations like you have.

Terry

[carpetman]

Bullshop---A sister farm? I was wondering where all the nuns come from.

[Triggerhappy]

Wow! I want to see pics of the 1900# 11' tall brown bear. What a beast.

[sheepdog]

Its one thing to take an animal down if you're going for just meat vs a mount. One has to use significantly more care for the mount.

[Blacksmith]

Unfortunately many "Hunters" can't hit the broad side of a barn. They also have no idea of the ballistics of their gun at various ranges. Use ammo that is selected by either the "Gimmie a box of ammo" or "What's the cheapest you got" method. And have no idea where either the vitals or a "G" spot are located. It is a wonder anything gets killed beside other hunters.

Rant Off. Thank you for listening.

Blacksmith

[trickyasafox]

I don't have enough animals under my belt to have any weight in the caliber controversy, but I agree with blacksmith that hunters have an ethical obligation to be well practiced before heading into the field. I cringe at 'sight in day' at my local club. lot of hunters with a lot of 12 gauge shotguns that haven't been shot since last sight in day who can't hit the board at 50 yards.

The worse was a neighbor of mine who hunted with a 12 gauge and a 44 magnum. he emptied the slug gun on a running deer that was obviously beyond his skill level, drew his 44, and emptied that too and broke its back on a hail mary shot that was the last one in the cylinder.

I wasn't there- but he tells this story PROUDLY. to me, if your shooting 11 times to bring down a deer, your putting that animal at risk of unnecessary wounding, and other hunters at risk of your gross incompetence.

Sometimes a hunter needs to take a few shots. Big game like elk and moose probably even more so, but I think this guy went beyond 1 or 2 follow up shots for a clean kill and well into 'spray and pray' territory. Still annoys me to think about it and he told me that story at least 10 years ago.

[Uncle R.]

I once butchered a deer that had the base portion of a small (.223?) jacketed bullet embedded in its hind quarter. My dad many years ago shot a deer that had a shotgun slug buried in its front shoulder. I suppose that the slug was fired from too far away and simply didn't have the energy to break the shoulder blade. The bullet in the hindquarter - who knows? It was mushroomed right down to near the base so perhaps it was fired from too close! Either of those projectiles might have given a quick kill if they'd hit behind the front shoulder. The point is that a 180 gr. Core-Lokt from a .30-06 even with identical hits on the shoulder or hind quarter would likely have finished both of those deer instead of letting them get away wounded.
<
I'm not a sufferer of supermagnumitus and I well understand that a big gun won't automatically make up for poor shot placement. BUT - I still think it's irresponsible to hunt with a cartridge that has NO margin for error and I'd suggest that a .44-40 for moose crosses that line.

[carpetman]

UncleR--Not to flame--the poorly hit (hind quarter) with a small .223? bullet, I think would have produced same results with 30-06. That's obviously only my guess. It MIGHT have put it down--we'll never know--but that logic that it might(which became it will)sure sold lots of magnums.

[JIMinPHX]

That guy with the 44-40 is obviously a much more talented hunter than I am.