25 ACP rifle/carbine

[dk17hmr]

I have found the parts needed to build a 25 ACP rifle....what would I want that for you say, why not is my response. I think would be a nice like round for shooting rabbits and I already have a .251 mold and reloading dies. If it doesnt work out the way I am thinking I could have the chamber reamed out to a .251 Hornet and have a rifle that would take coyote with out any problem.

My question is given the powder capacity of the little case, 2gr would be about max, although I could probably bump it up in a rifle, how much barrel would it take to burn off that powder for maximun velocity. I was thinkin 11-12" would be more than enough. But the smith I found to put it together said 16" would be better.

This is going to be a liner in a shot gun barrel so really over all lenght isnt going to be an issue, I will probably have the shotgun barrel cut off at 16-18" and have the liner glued in to place with accuglass or something to make sure it stays in and doesnt come up and make a short barrel shotgun. The extra lenght of barrel would than be machined to look like a flash hider.

Any positive thoughts? I know what some people think about the 25 acp but alll we know of it is out of a handgun with a 2" barrel....nothing yet about a scoped rifle barrel.

[lathesmith]

I've always thought a 25 acp rifle might be a good idea; very practical for plinking and small varmints and such. Years ago some importer--I think it was EMF-- had listed in their catalog an AR-15 look alike that shot 25 acp ammo; I never actually saw one but always thought it would be an interesting gun.
I believe 22LR velocity peaks in something like 16-18" of barrel, and begins to slow down after that. Of course, this is with lead bullets, with copper-jacketed stuff like the 25 ACP uses it would probably be peak in a shorter barrel. So, I guess optimum barrel length would depend on what you are planning to shoot out of your 25.


Anyway, good luck with your project!
lathesmith

[257 Shooter]

You also need to check the legal length fpr Rifle barrels. I do not believe you can have a barrel on a rifle shorter that 16" without NFA permit.

[StarMetal]

Let me tell you of a project that Jumptrap and I were thinking about doing, until he gave it up. Jump was very interested in the 5.7x28 case. He wanted to neck it up to 25 caliber and make a strictly cast shooter for a rifle. He even went as far as locating one of the old Remington actions used for the 5mm cartridge they tried way back. Off the top of my head those models were in the 590's series if I'm correct. I had suggested that necking at 22 Hornet up would be a better idea based on the fact that it's been done and probably easier to find a chamber reamer and dies for. As you can surmise using that Remington action would limit it to low pressure and that's what Jump intended to do with cast.

Joe

[scb]

Just out of curiosity where did you come up with a .251 barrel?

[woody1]

I've often thought of something similar as a corta mini, whattheheck do they call 'em, mini Rook rifle. My preference would be either a single shot falling block or a converted Remington 22 in the 580 series. Keep us posted on how you progress. Regards, Woody

[Houndog]

You also need to check the legal length fpr Rifle barrels. I do not believe you can have a barrel on a rifle shorter that 16" without NFA permit.

A BIG +1 on that! When I had my FFL and was rebarreling rifles at the rate of 3-5 a week I wouldn't cut one shorter than 16 1/2" the "offical" measurement is 16", but I always included a fudge factor. The little fiasco at Ruby Ridge started with a hacksawed off barrell something like 1/4" under the legal limit!

[autofix4u]

I don't know about a 25acp, but I went to the trouble to build a Mosin Nagant in 32acp. really just to see if I could. The chamber & lead were horrable in the rifle, and I didn't think the barrel profile would allow a rifle cal rechamber. So I went with the 32acp because it fit the rifling. I tried to get it to feed from a modified pistol mag with block fitted in the orignal mag well. But it never worked out. It shot well and killed many a treerat & bunny. But just wanted a little more from it so it now has a 327 mag chamber. It will shoot all the straight wall 32s well. And could probaly still shoot 32acps, but haven't tried it.

[StarMetal]

I don't know about a 25acp, but I went to the trouble to build a Mosin Nagant in 32acp. really just to see if I could. The chamber & lead were horrable in the rifle, and I didn't think the barrel profile would allow a rifle cal rechamber. So I went with the 32acp because it fit the rifling. I tried to get it to feed from a modified pistol mag with block fitted in the orignal mag well. But it never worked out. It shot well and killed many a treerat & bunny. But just wanted a little more from it so it now has a 327 mag chamber. It will shoot all the straight wall 32s well. And could probaly still shoot 32acps, but haven't tried it.

That's impressive autofix4u. Is it just single or did you work some kind of magazine into it?

Joe

[dk17hmr]

This would be build on a NEF single shot.
For the .251 barrel it would be a liner from:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(oif...42&styleID=483
I emailed them and asked how long it could be made, the response was up to 48". That would be glued/welded/ permanently in there, into a bored out 410 shot gun barrel. Than the 410 barrel could be cut down to what ever length over 16.1" I wanted. Drilled and tap for scope mount and be ready to rock and roll. The liner could be any lenght as long as it was attached to the 410 barrel permanently, making it a rifle barrel. If the liner was 10" I would have a 6" peice of barrel that would be smooth but would get drilled and machined into a "flash hider"

I have a 50gr mold from Lyman and would be a good bullet for plinkin, I figured today that I could load them for 3 cents a peice, about the same price it is to shoot a 22LR. I also thought about the Speer Gold Dot 35gr JHP for hunting loads and just regular cheap factory 25 acp ammo with a 50gr FMJ for plinkin and brass.

35gr JHP can hit 1000 out of a 2" barrel, I bet 12-1500 could be reached out of a rifle lenght barrel and 50gr could be pushed to 1000fps or better. Sounds like a heck of a wicked little rabbit gun to me.

[StarMetal]

This would be build on a NEF single shot.
For the .251 barrel it would be a liner from:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(oifth1nlgkxii445004ipa45))/categories/tableList.aspx?catID=14&subID=142&styleID=483
I emailed them and asked how long it could be made, the response was up to 48". That would be glued/welded/ permanently in there, into a bored out 410 shot gun barrel. Than the 410 barrel could be cut down to what ever length over 16.1" I wanted. Drilled and tap for scope mount and be ready to rock and roll. The liner could be any lenght as long as it was attached to the 410 barrel permanently, making it a rifle barrel. If the liner was 10" I would have a 6" peice of barrel that would be smooth but would get drilled and machined into a "flash hider"

I have a 50gr mold from Lyman and would be a good bullet for plinkin, I figured today that I could load them for 3 cents a peice, about the same price it is to shoot a 22LR. I also thought about the Speer Gold Dot 35gr JHP for hunting loads and just regular cheap factory 25 acp ammo with a 50gr FMJ for plinkin and brass.

35gr JHP can hit 1000 out of a 2" barrel, I bet 12-1500 could be reached out of a rifle lenght barrel and 50gr could be pushed to 1000fps or better. Sounds like a heck of a wicked little rabbit gun to me.

Doug,

How does the outer diameter compare to the inner diameter of the 410 barrel? You won't be shooting a high pressure cartridge, but liners are supposed to be backed up by the rest of the barrel wall and the epoxy or solder is only a thin coating. By the way don't worry about epoxy holding because it will for sure. Just make sure you clean both parts first. Sounds like an interesting concept. Also if you don't shorten the 410 barrel below the legal 18 inches it doesn't matter what length that liner is as far as I'm aware.

Joe

[shotman]

Your first question about powder burn. The powderyour using in a 25acp is going to be a fast powder Bulleye or the like it burns in a 2in 25acp so theat wont be a problem. I didnt think it made any difference on the lengh if its rifled.
Oh a scope on a 25acp? with cast? I would go with a 24 power at least

[dk17hmr]

How does the outer diameter compare to the inner diameter of the 410 barrel?

The liner is 7/16" in diameter according to Track of the Wolf, which is .4375 in the real word. The smith I talked to said it would be no problem boring the 410 barrel out so the liner would fit. Epoxy would be used like you said, but I was thinkin maybe running a die around a couple inches on both ends of the liner to give it more to grab, and running a tap into the breech end of the shotgun barrel, just enough to kiss the metal not full threads, for the same reason.

I just so happen to have a spare 6-24x BSA scope with target turrets and a sun shade if this project ever gets off the ground.

I talked to my dad today about it and he said what I expected "just buy a 22magnum"...what fun is that. I really want to see what the little round will do....in some states it would be legal as a rifle for deer hunting.

[StarMetal]

The liner is 7/16" in diameter according to Track of the Wolf, which is .4375 in the real word. The smith I talked to said it would be no problem boring the 410 barrel out so the liner would fit. Epoxy would be used like you said, but I was thinkin maybe running a die around a couple inches on both ends of the liner to give it more to grab, and running a tap into the breech end of the shotgun barrel, just enough to kiss the metal not full threads, for the same reason.

I just so happen to have a spare 6-24x BSA scope with target turrets and a sun shade if this project ever gets off the ground.

I talked to my dad today about it and he said what I expected "just buy a 22magnum"...what fun is that. I really want to see what the little round will do....in some states it would be legal as a rifle for deer hunting.

Doug,

Sounds like a plan. You really don't have to have to put those threads on to give the epoxy a bite. Believe, if you screw up and try to get that liner back out you would see.

I think that round would be more then a match for the 22 mag. If you throat it right you can load the bullet out and have all the powder capacity too. Being the 25 is larger then the 22 Hornet the pressure will subside faster due to the larger bore volume as the bullet moves on down it.

Keep us up to date on this as it's very interesting.

Joe

[357Mag]

DK -

What about the extractor, for the NEF set-up ? The original .410 unit won't work.

I've done some " mental masturbation " over a Kel-Tec 9mm, set-up for 7 X33 Sako.
Perhaps only practical as a single-shot ? Acquisition cost is ok, though; for such a project.

Regards,
357Mag

[dubber123]

Doug, I don't see any problems at all. For the extractor, just fab up a new one, or weld up the old and re-mill to fit the smaller case. My brother and I just did that to an old 16 ga. we relined to 38-55. Works fine. Go easy on the Acraglas. It takes ALOT less than you think, and if the liner is fit snugly, it will kinda hydraulic itself on the way in and will take LOTS of pounding with a big hammer to get it seated. Ask me how I know....

[dk17hmr]

The extractor can be bought from Brownells for a few bucks, I am pretty sure a 22 horent extractor/ejector will work.

[autofix4u]

That's impressive autofix4u. Is it just single or did you work some kind of magazine into it?

Joe

Its a single shooter now. I never could get it to feed from a mag with the 32acp. The oal is just to short for the jump to the chamber. I haven't tried with the longer 32s due to lack of a doner mag.

[scrapcan]

Coul dyou fit the liner so that it is removable? tension it in with a muzzle nut. You could then try several different liners on the same action. This could be similar to the shotgun inserts.

[Bret4207]

Years back on Shooters there was talk of converting a Ruger 10-22, but nothing came of it. Would be interesting though.