I guess I made a Star die

[Buckshot]

...........What a PITA compared to a Lyman or RCBS!



About on par with making a Saeco I guess. It's only saving grace is that it doesn't require threads like a Saeco.

..............Buckshot

[Swagerman]

Looks dang good ta me, philgrim...you always do top drawer work. Where's,the lube holes.

Can you make one in .454?

Jim

[LIMPINGJ]

You did. Got to check it out today and works just great. Any hope of you doing some more?
Jim

[montana_charlie]

Huh? I saw the title of the thread and looked in to find out which star you had killed...

[Buckshot]

..............Jim, glad to hear it. I was wondering if you'd got it. Those pictures are of your die, obviously before the holes were drilled and the passage honed.

................Swagerman, "Looks dang good ta me, philgrim...you always do top drawer work. Where's,the lube holes. Can you make one in .454?"

HA! I don't know if I wanna make any more of these things. Actually I made up some tools dedicated to these dies but I have some questions.

1) Behind the flange is a groove. I can't see that it serves any usefull purpose. I put one on the one I made because the sample had one. Seems as if the flange at .875" could just step down to .750" it would be just fine.

2) I understand the die seals via rubber 'O' rings in the presses' casting. So the radiused shoulders on the .750" sealing surfaces are there to ease the dies' passage. I submit that a simple incline would serve as well, with the point of the created angle being simply broken. A tool with a straight angle is a heckuva lot easier to grind and maintain then a tool with such a radius ground into it.

3) From a comment made by Tom Myers, I'm under the assumption that the lube passage holes have some relation to the boolits' design or length? That the application of pressure to he lube is "Timed" to the boolits passage? That if the holes are mis-placed lube may escape the die?

Actually question 3 carries the most weight of my concern over making these dies. I do not care to waste my time trying to figure out where the holes should go in the die body, or having someone upset about where the lube holes are located.

If the above IS in fact the case, I'd have to pass on making them unless the customer was going to supply a template or measurements of where to drill the holes.

...............Buckshot

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Buckshot,

I can't answer any of you questions, but wanted to say I thought the work you've done so far looks darn good.

Dave

[AnthonyB]

Buckshot, my Stars don't use the O-ring so I can't comment on #2. I can help with #3 and will measure and report the hole spacing on my dies tonight. I think it is probably pretty uniform across my selection of dies. Where you put the holes wouldn't really matter much because the user plugs the un-needed holes with shot. I think a two diameter lube hole to accept the shot would be much more important than the location of the hole. Tony

[Cherokee]

Buckshot - the die looks good to me. Robert Stillwell has made all of mine for me. The holes are vertically spaced evenly within the lube track, 3 rows for pistol bullets and 4 rows for rifle bullets. I don't remember how many holes in a row, 3 I think. My star does not have an O-ring. On ?1, I don't see the need. The placement of the lube holes is to accomidate the groove placements in the bullet, the depth of the bullet in the die is controlled by the base punch. The lube holes have a step in them so they can be plugged with #12 shot if not needed.

Hope that helps. I could be interested if you want to make some more.

[seagiant]

Hi Buckshot!,
Really nice looking work,I made one out of a piece of shafting I had. Had to anneal it at first of course but came out pretty good. Will I make another one? NO! not that I didn't have any fun doing it but now that I have I can think of better things to do! HA! Take care!



United States Merchant Marines!
We carry the fight!

[slughammer]

1.) Groove only serves purpose for machining operation. Easier to have groove than it is to have no radius on tool nose (Can't remember if the press has a chamfer on the .75 bore or if its a sharp corner). Or it's easier to dial in .7500 if you don't have to work against the flange (I imagine the original dies were centerless ground on those OD's).

2.) No o-rings on my original Star. It seals by that .7500 diameter. Like you mention breaking the point is the important part (I'd fake a radius with a bastard file).

3.) Boolit is timed by adjusting the base punch, or nose punch; they are threaded for adjustment.

Aren't these fun? I made exactly one of these on my HF Chiawanese Multipurpse Machine. I made it out of a piece of 1" 4140, IIRC it took about 3 weeks to complete and I had 60 hours into it. Right now I have a piece of .75 drill rod and some 1/8" thick washers. I plan on turning a shoulder, cutting a couple of bevels and then welding the head on.

[Swagerman]

I have Star lube dies that the lube holes are sort of cone shaped, bigger on the outside and narrow down towards the inner diameter where the bullet is.

I guess its the die makers way of using an orifice effect to increase pressure to the bullets lube grooves...at least that's my guess.

Jim

[454PB]

Yes, the lube holes are actually stepped, not tapered. The outer hole is about three times as big as the inner hole. I suspect that it was done this way to allow the user to insert lead shot and plug whichever holes he chose not to use. One mine, I've been adjusting lube location by adjusting the base punch, but I can see that a drastically shorter boolit would require plugging some of the holes.

The older Star dies are so tightly machined that they don't require an O-ring. The newer Magma dies have the O-ring.

Nice work, Buckshot! I haven't yet made any dies for my Star, but when I do I'm going to experiment with the size of the lube passages. The weather has been so nice I'm riding my Gold Wing instead.

[Buckshot]

...............454PB, "The older Star dies are so tightly machined that they don't require an O-ring. The newer Magma dies have the O-ring."

You mean the press casting has the O rings or the dies themselves? Oh I can hold tight , but that means the press casting has to match the dimensions as tightly. I don't see the need for it myself so long as the punch can follow a couple thousandths 'float' the O rings prolly have.

LimpingJ sent a punch also. Naturally the threaded part is some cockamamie deal at 1/2-27 TPI. It wouldn't be so bad if my lathe cut 27 TPI but that one is missing I'm not too hot on buying a gear to convert one available on my QC box to that. I took the cheap way out and bought a 1/2-27 die! Not I have to make a diestock to fit the tailstock.

Obviously I am NOT familiar with the Star lubsizer. Is there a tangible benefit to making the punches replaceable into that 1/2-27 threaded piece? I don't know if it's worthwhile or not. If the threaded body was left in the ram I mean. It could be D&T'ed say 1/4-28, and then the punch could have a similarly threaded tail with a lock nut so it could be set and locked at some particular length.

The reason I question the utility is that the existing one has to be screwed in and out, as would the modified punches have to be screwed in and out. The punches might be a bit cheaper. Am I missing a usefull modification here?

Re: Lube holes in the die. I can see the need for the tapered hole if they were to be plugged with lead shot. Has anyone tried closing off holes with adhesive backed aluminum tape like that used for "Beagleing? I'd think that it would be sturdy enough, covering such a small hole that the lube would not have a tendancy to puncture through? Seems like it would be easier to remove, IMHO anyway.

Can anyone see that I'm not interested in buying (or trying to find) such tapered drill bits, HA! I'm kind of interested in making these (especially seeing what Stillwell and Magma get for them), but I can't invest heavily in odd tooling whose special utility is limited to these dies specificly.

Do these dies come with the punch, or is that a seperate item?

.................Buckshot

[454PB]

Buckshot:
I have been considering making a threaded bushing to adapt the 1/2" by 27 tpi to something more readily available. Not only is the boolit punch proprietary threaded, but also the lock nuts. My Star was bought used, came with 4 sets of dies and matching punches, and one lock nut. Whatever thread is used has to be fine to maintain proper alignment. With the Star design, it's important that the punch be carefully adjusted to suit each length of boolit so that it is positioned correctly when the pump injects the lube. If an adapter is used, it's important that it's length be as short as possible or you'll lose some adjustment room.

The story I'm hearing is that Magma decided to use an O-ring seal on the newer machines to minimize the tight tolerances on the earlier Star built machines. I've also read that that tolerance doesn't exist.....the Magma built equipment does not leak if the O-ring is left off. The O-ring is only for the die.....no differences in the body that it fits into. I can tell you that my Star is very tightly fitted, changing dies requires a lot of force. I've stated here before that I quit maching the O-ring groove in my home made Lyman sizing dies, and they might leak a pea size gob of lube out the bottom in 500 boolits.

Back to those lube holes: I honed out one of the dies I received with my Star, which meant I had to thoroughy clean it first. I took measurements of the die while it was squeeky clean and inspected the lube holes. They are NOT tapered, but rather have been drilled with two different sized bits. I didn't measure the diameters, but I can if you want those, I have a full set of number and letter drill bits. My guess is that the smaller hole is about .030" and the larger is .090". I also measured and recorded their spacing along the die, and can give you those if you want. The tape over the hole idea might work, but be aware that the Star uses a high pressure lube pump on the down stroke that might push the tape into that very small lube hole and cause problems.

Another thing I learned is that the Star dies are way harder than the Lyman dies. I make my Lyman dies from mild carbon steel and plan to do the same with the Star dies. I have home made Lyman dies that have sized 10's of thousands of boolits with no dimensional changes, so I'm not worried about the hardness.

[Buckshot]

.............454PB, thanks for taking the time to reply. Helpfull info that clears some stuff up.

..................Buckshot

[Springfield]

I had my punches changed to a 2 piece system. It is so much easier to change to a different size when you don't have to remove the whole thing, especially if you have the bullet feeder. I have 3 Stars, 1 new one and 2 older originals. I leave the o-ring off all of them. It leaks a tiny bit, but makes it much easier to change dies.

[454PB]

I took some measurements (using drill bits) of the lube holes, and a macro picture to show their arrangement. The smaller (inside) hole is .0395" or # 60 drill. The larger (outside) hole is .088" or #43 drill.

[Buckshot]

..................Now see! The hole placement on THAT one is way different then the one LimpingJ sent me. It even looks faintly different. So who decided where the ()*&%#&*( holes are supposed to go

..............Springfield, "I had my punches changed to a 2 piece system. It is so much easier to change to a different size when you don't have to remove the whole thing, especially if you have the bullet feeder. "

Ah, so. There IS a benefit to a 2 piece setup eh?

................Buckshot

[454PB]

The theory is that the holes can be drilled to suit the boolit, so they could be just about anywhere within that depressed lube section. Magma says "send us your boolit for custom drilling".....yeah, right. What most people will do is plug the unneeded holes if there isn't sufficient adjustment. After seeing how small that #60 drill bit is, I'm concerned about drilling it that small without breaking the bit.

By the way, this particular die has half the holes plugged. On the original picture I took, you can actually see the smaller hole inside the larger one on the upper right hand hole.

[madcaster]

I had a machinist friend make some,but his probably were not near as good as yours.
Great job!
Jeff.