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Thread: TC Cherokee heavy trigger pull!!!

  1. #1
    Boolit Master eka's Avatar
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    TC Cherokee heavy trigger pull!!!

    I just got a TC Cherokee and it's a real beauty. Wow, it sure is a lot lighter than my Renegade with the Green Mountain .32 barrel. But, I'm not complaining about the GM accuracy. The thing about the Cherokee is that I took it out for a test drive and it no joke has a trigger pull of about 12 to 14 pounds. This rifle has a single trigger. Don't know if there are any other configurations. I managed a one inch four shot group at 50 yards with 25 grains of FFF Goex and a .310 ball, but it's no telling what the little rifle would do if the trigger would give it half a chance. My question is, can a nice double trigger be fitted to this rifle? If so, what is the recommendation. I'm not much on changing things, especially when it comes to rifles that aren't being made anymore and so forth, but this is not useful the way it is. I don't think I would have that same success in the field as I did off the bench with that trigger. Also, as a side note. The cup around the nipple has a razor sharp edge on it that I would be proud to have on any of my knives. And I'm sporting a nice gash on my right thumb to prove it. Now, that I know it's there it's not so much of a problem, but it did make for a painful surprise.
    Thanks for any ideas.
    Keith
    The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.

    Thomas Jefferson

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Grind off that edge for one. Cold blue or parkerize to blend back in. I'd contact Thompson t see about any replacement triggers. Maybe even the Fox Ridge guys who specialize in T/C. Aside from that,are there any good smiths in your area?

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
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    I worked over the lock on my Cherokee to improve the trigger considerably. I soft soldered a sliver of steel to the fullcock notch, then cut that back to give the amount of sear engagement I wanted. (Do not cut the fullcock notch shallower or the trigger will hit the halfcock notch when the rifle is fired.) Then I thinned the trigger return spring to give the pull weight I wanted, and polished up the internals. Initially the rifle had so much creep in the rigeer that it was nearly impossible to use. Now it has a crisp 3 lb. trigger without perceptable creep, and will hold properly on full cock.

    One warning, if you do this, use really minimal heat on the cock notches. They are hardened, and you do not want to soften them at all. If you are concerned with this, use epoxy for your shim instead of solder to be safe. Both work if you use good epoxy and prepare the surface well.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master pietro's Avatar
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    My early Cherokee .45 has the double-set triggers that the Cherokee and it's fancied-up brother, the Seneca, used to be issued with - and it's a pleasure to shoot.

    I don't know where you could obtain a set of DS triggers that fit - maybe the T/C Parts Dept ?

    Don't do AYTHING to the issue trigger/sear, because AFAIK they are cast/sintered parts, and if the surface casehardening is removed, it will only feel much worse and irrepairable, to boot.

    .
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  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    You might check out Dixiegunworks. They have a large selection of replacment triggers.
    Aim small, miss small!

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
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    Amen to the above! This is another reason I didn't want to cut on the lock parts.

    Oh, I also remembered another mod - the trigger flops around a lot and is sort of annoying, so I welded a chunk of steel to the front of it to make a place for a light spring to keep it from flopping, and a screw to control overtravel. It's all inside the stock so doesn't look different from the outside, but makes for a nicer rifle to shoot.

    As for the set trigger, you'd have to check to see if the single trigger stock could be inletted for the double set's trigger guard. I don't know if they are the same stock or not, but if you could get hold of the factory parts or something of similar size you could certainly convert it over to double sets.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master northmn's Avatar
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    They also make single set triggers, or one trigger that can be set by pushing forward. Check the following, Stonewall Creek Outfitters, Track of the Wold and Muzzleloaders Builders Supply. Some of these locks used to have a little screw you could adjust set in the full cock notch, obviously this one does not. While I have redone a lot of single triggers to get a good pull, without seeing this one I keep it to one suggestion. A good single trigger is set into a rifle with the pivot or trigger pin about 3/8 or 1/2 inch high, whcih gives more leverage. An English type single trigger could be purchased and inlet which has this feature. many "Kentucky" rifles had a single trigger with the trigger pin drilled through the stock. It works fine. Some of these production rifles have the pin drilled through the plate which is assinine.

    Northmn

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    Before you do anything call TC and tell them what is happening and let them have the first go with it. They are some really nice people and have always treated me right one reason I have around 7 of their products and no I didn't buy them all new and they still helped me when needed.
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  9. #9
    Boolit Master eka's Avatar
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    shdwlkr, I took your advice and emailed TC Customer Service to get their thoughts on the situation. Haven't heard back yet.

    I also talked with David at Track of the Wolfe. David said he strongly suspects that the standard TC double set trigger would work. He said TC only used that one trigger on all of their rifles and strongly suspects that all stocks were inletted to work with that double trigger. He also said they had never tried this retro-fit, but strongly suspects it would work. I took the measurements of the TC trigger and was going to do some rough measurements to see if it was close. I went to pull the trigger guard off my Cherokee and found that the trigger guard and trigger were made as one. The inletting does seem close, but if, and that is a pretty good if, the TC double trigger worked, I would have to come up with a new trigger guard and do some additional inletting for the trigger guard. I suppose a blued trigger guard off an old Renegade would work and would probably look better than the brass one that's on there.
    Maybe I should just do some weight training with my trigger finger to make the existing trigger not so bad.

    Keith
    The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.

    Thomas Jefferson

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    I stoned the sear,and lightened the trigger spring in my cherokee,just like any type trigger job. It has a good 2# trigger now,and hardly any creep.It was very simple to work it down.

  11. #11
    Boolit Mold
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    Not exactly the same issue, but I acquired a .45 Cherokee in great shape recently, but the lock is SO STIFF! Should I replace the spring? Can I? Called T/C and they said shoot it a lot and it will loosen up but it hasn't so far.........

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  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Being the Cherokee rifle is very desirable and a collectable due to its long discontinuance [1994.] I see little benefit gain in a trigger enhancement and its likely required re-mortising.

    If wanting a light weight totter 32. By all means consider a Traditions Crockett rifle for that purpose.

    My suggestion: Hang that 32 Cherokee on a wall so too admire daily. "Its a unique piece of T/Cs history."
    "JUST A OLD DEPLORABLE THAT'S IRREDEEMABLE."

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    I'm not familiar with the Cherokee rifle; does it have a fly in the tumbler? If not, that could be the source of another problem. A few years ago I commissioned a friend to build me a rifle with a single trigger. It has a 2-3 pound pull, crisp with no creep. So they will work well. Good luck with yours.
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  15. #15
    Boolit Master

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    Mostly springs especially the sear spring too heavy and rough internals. We strip polish and tune these locks for a 4 pound trigger pull and smooth operation but this is a job where you need to know what you are doing so you don't work through the hardening. The other problem with most factory guns is how the single trigger is hung. They are all wrong from the standpoint of mechanical advantage. A properly made trigger hung right decreases the amount of pull needed and factory triggers INCREASE because they are pivoted in the wrong place. I was taught the proper method by the folks at Green River Rifle works years ago and I can get a safe reliable 2# pull in a single trigger. I still have drawings from Greg Roberts on mechanical advantage and pivot points.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master Maven's Avatar
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    Question

    A question for eka, et. al.: Were T/C Cherokee rifles ever produced/sold with a single trigger? The reason I ask is the one that I owned (.45cal.) had a double set trigger + fly from the start, i.e., NIB. It's double set trigger adjustment was the same as with the T/C Hawken I also owned and the T/C Renegade SB I presently own. And yes, the unset (forward) trigger requires a great deal of effort to trip/fire the gun.

    Keith, Are you sure someone didn't "improve" your Cherokee by replacing the original double set trigger group, or worse, that it's a T/C knockoff?
    Last edited by Maven; 07-06-2017 at 07:37 PM.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master pietro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 725 View Post
    Grind off that edge for one. Cold blue or parkerize to blend back in. I'd contact Thompson t see about any replacement triggers. Maybe even the Fox Ridge guys who specialize in T/C. Aside from that,are there any good smiths in your area?


    FYI, T/C has had NO parts for the downsize (compared to Hawken/Renegade) Seneca/Cherokee rifles (or Patriot pistols) ever since the buildings that housed the plans, spare parts and the special machinery to make those guns burned to the ground 20 years ago (1997).

    The T/C Custom Shop, aka Fox River Outfitters, closed their doors when S&W bought out T/C & moved some production to West Springfield, MA in 2010.

    My Cherokee .45 has the early DST (double set triggers) setup, and while the parts can be sometimes found (Track of the Wolf ?), you will also need a compatible (longer loop) triggerguard for the conversion.

    Failing all that, a competent (real) gunsmith (not some AR parts-changer) should be able to lighten/correct the trigger pull on your rifle, and at much less cost than a conversion to DST's.

    Below is a Seneca (top) and a Cherokee (bottom) for comparison:




    .
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  18. #18
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maven View Post
    A question for ska, et. al.: Were T/C Cherokee rifles ever produced/sold with a single trigger? The reason I ask is the one that I owned (.45cal.) had a double set trigger + fly from the start, i.e., NIB. It's double set trigger adjustment was the same as with the T/C Hawken I also owned and the T/C Renegade SB I presently own. And yes, the unset (forward) trigger requires a great deal of effort to trip/fire the gun.

    Keith, Are you sure someone didn't "improve" your Cherokee by replacing the original double set trigger group, or worse, that it's a T/C knockoff?
    Yes. I have three Cherokees and one of them has a single trigger with the large bow like the new Englander. And it has a very nice trigger pull after a bit of work.

    Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

  19. #19
    Boolit Master Maven's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Thanks for that information, Nobade!

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