How about wad cutters in a rifle?

[Lead pot]

I read a lot of you guys going with velocity's over 2000 fps with a PP bullets and only shooting 100 yards. 1000 to 1200 fps is plenty fast for 200 yards for out standing accuracy for punching paper.
And some are making your own moulds. Well here is a bullet that shoots very good in a hand gun and also a rifle and the mould is very simple to make.
These I swaged for the .45-90 and patched to .449diameter.
They sure cut a nice clean hole dont they compared to the GG on the target on the right.

[Dframe]

Very interesting. I'd always believed that the wadcutters flat nose would cause it to shed velocity too quickly due to wind resistance.

[montana_charlie]

Was that left-hand target shot at 200 yards?
What did your recovered patches look like?

CM

[303Guy]

If nothing else, they sure look good!
They seem accurate too!

Ummm ...... pics? You got pics of the mold and the process?
(This is way too interesting to not have pics!)

For streamlining, one could go semi-wadcutter and still get the same clean cut hole. Maybe not the same accuracy. What about a simple flat nose design? That I could do! Mmmm ...... I could spead up my casting process with such a simple style mold! In fact, you have given me an idea! Mmmm ...... This could work ...... !

[Lead pot]

Was that left-hand target shot at 200 yards?
What did your recovered patches look like?

CM

Yes it was. I did not see any remnants of patches because of the breeze that day.

303. those are swagged bullets, not cast.
These are my swaged bullets for the .50-90 and the third from the left is just like the fourth from the left except it is knurled for lube and both will cut a clean hole like the wad cutter.



The set up on the left is the swage press and dies and the one on the right is my case stretcher in a swage press.

[montana_charlie]

and the one on the right is my case stretcher in a swage press.

Interesting to learn that you (also) see value in being able to stretch cases. I would love to see yours in action, but I suppose a video is out of the question.

CM

[Lead pot]

That I cant do CM. No video cam.

Quite simple. The expander is a floating stem that will work for any length case.
Right now the stem holder is all the way up.
Just raise the ram and that expands the base of the case at the swage press power stroke and when the ram is lowered the die is pushed over the case and draws the brass over the stem.

[Lead pot]

CM.

I might add that my intend was not to stretch brass with this. I build it to thin and uniform the case necks wall. It's a lot faster to take a cut off .405 Hornady case and thin the case neck wall so a .408 diameter bullet will chamber properly with out swaging the bullet base down.
For a PP bullet it is not needed because the extra thickness of the case neck is beneficial.
I can run brass through this set up faster than turning case necks.
For case necks I just use a longer ejector bushing to hold the draw die higher.

Lp.

[303Guy]

Yes! With that concept I can overcome my problem with forming 375 cases for my hypothetical 303-375 (375/303) and having a longer 'neck' without turning.

Thanks for the pics.

Might I ask for more? That case stretcher is of interest to me ... hint!

Nice set-up you have there. Beats TV hands down!

So, those are 200yd targets! Not too shabby. Those boolits look real good!

Just to clarify - in your first post, are those the front ends of the boolits or are they standing on their noses?

[Lead pot]

303----Yes.

[Hubertus]

Lead pot, that is a clever idea and it looks like it works. Congratulations on that.
I know I am only a rookie but just hat to post that.

I like the pics with your setup and the boolits and of course the first one, too.
Would you mind to tell me a little bit more about the .50 boolit design you recommended to 303Guy. What is the relation of the shank to the nose lenght and is it tapered or straight, what is the meplat diameter and the "base" diameter of the nose after the cutting edge?

Hubertus

[Huvius]

Lead Pot, are those cylindrical boolits cupped at both ends and patched over the edges of both ends?
Accuracy like that sort of defies the insistence that patching past the ogive on a regular boolit will kill accuracy, right?

[montana_charlie]

Accuracy like that sort of defies the insistence that patching past the ogive on a regular boolit will kill accuracy, right?

Patching past the ogive prevents the patch from being cut all the way to the leading edge of the paper.

That creates a mental image where, instead of peeling back like the plastic wad in a shotgun shell, the patch remains connected at the leading edge, as well as at the base fold.

With that, instead of confetti exploding away from the sides of the bulllet, you get a picture of a single, sliced-up postage stamp fluttering in the breeze until it manages to get unwrapped..

[koehlerrk]

Wad cutters work just fine in a rifle. Easy way to try it and see how they feed is to take a normal cast boolit and load it backwards. Simple and easy to try.

[Lead pot]

Huvius

Man I'm surprised that I haven't cleaned those pictures out of my bucket

That wad cutter was a I wonder thing when I did that. LOL. I shot a lot of wad cutters through the .38 Gold Cup 1911 and the S&W 52 master shooting bulls eye matches and one day when I was swaging some bullets I saved some of the cores and patched them to answer my I wonder curiosity.
Yes they are cupped on both ends and the patch was over the leading edge on both ends. The patch shredded like any other patch. With that cupped nose I'm sure that the paper was already separating off the leading edge before the whole bullet cleared the muzzle from the air getting pushed off the cup nose.
I haven't done it since and I have no idea just how far the accuracy would hold....Maybe some day

When you get right down to it, don't cut a flat nose short. A bullet the original Ideal moulds that Pope made will reach the 1K iron in fine shape.

[johnson1942]

i also swage bullets for paperpatching. i swage 45 and 50 cal with various nose shapes. all are hollow base with a stout lip and not a fragile lip. some have a shrot flat nose and these prove to be very accurate. i have read that flat noses on large diam bullets can create a air bubble in front and this helps the air go around it smoothly. also the hollow base can drag along a air bubble at the base that acts like a feather on a arrow to keep the bullet stable. i dont know if this is all true or not but my experience is at the speeds that black powder produces, flat nose bullets can be very very accurate. i have swaged bullets with longer very pointed noses and found these not as accurate than the bullets with a flat spot on the nose. i swage a lot of bullets with a very long bearing surface and the nose looks like a roundball cut in half on front of the bullet. those are my favorite. i can get more bearing surface and more weight into the bullet length that shoots accurately in my rifle. these kind of bullets are very accurate for me. man if you hunted with a wad cutter , it would hit like a freight train.