9mm Luger Carbide sizer die

[Wally]

I have a Lyman carbide sizer die in the 9mm Luger caliber. I have noticed that some cases will have a belt/bulge formed on them when resized at the base of the cartridge case. This will not happen if I use an old RCBS steel resizer die...has anyone else have this happen to them? If I size the bulged cases in the RCBS die, the bulge dissappears. Perhaps the Lyman die is defective?

[Ken 45LC]

Does the brass chamber with this bulge? I once got a Dillon die that did the same thing, and the brass wouldn't even chamber with the bulge. Of course Dillon exchanged it, and the new one works great and no bulge. I'd give Lyman a call.

Ken

[Wally]

Yes, funny but there is no problem with that. I use a Taurus 99AF and it has a loose chamber--I can easily insert rounds with bullets sized to .358".

[Shiloh]

Is this brass from a Glock by chance??

I had a .40 that did the same thing until I put on an aftermarket barrel. I also trimmed the base of the die right to the carbide insert to let the die go down another .023.

Shiloh

[ANeat]

9mm has a good bit of taper, with a carbide sizer they basicly size the whole case to the mouth diameter, with 9mm that causes it to size near the base a little more than necessary. Loaded rounds can have more of a coke bottle look to them.

With a steel die that requires you to lube ; it is probably cut to the correct taper

[1hole]

"This will not happen if I use an old RCBS steel resizer die...has anyone else have this happen to them?"

Yeah, it's completely normal. Most "straight wall" cases actually have a taper, steel dies do too. Carbide dies size cases into a true cylinder, contributing to early failure due to excessive working of the mid-body and subsequent early body cracks.

[GabbyM]

Since you say “Some” cases. I've noticed this with worn out cases. Using my old steel die. With my die it was an indication the case head was blown out. IIRC sometimes this also meant a loose primer pocket.

You may want to measure the inflicted case heads for over size if you've a micrometer. For sure pay extra attention to the primer seating force. A 9mm loaded to max pressure can be hard on brass. If the ones with the step also have head stamps about smashed flat I'd say it's the brass. If you can grab a new case to measure where the step in your resized brass is to see if the die is running undersized their or if the old case is just larger under that mark.

Anyway if this were a poker game I'd put my money on worn out brass before the die being out of spec that much. Mostly since you state it's on some cases but not all. Feeling for that step may just be a good way to cull old brass.

Oh yes my "old" RCBS die is worn out after multiple scratch polishings and thousnads of cycles. So it would not make a good gage to judge a new die by. I have a carbide die to go in my Dillon tool head but the brass gets cleaned , lubed and sized with the old die first. Then tumbled clean in corn cob media with a littel wax. The almost sized waxed cases slide through the carbide die while the primer punch insures no media is left in the flash hole.

[Buckshot]

Happens a lot to one degree or another regardless of the cartridge. A run of the mill revolver in 38 Special (for instance) is going to have a chamber to accept any commercially made 38 Special ammo. The size die is going to size it back so that it will go into any reasonablely produced 38 Special pistol.

The 9mm would be notorious for this as ammo is made the whole world over as are the pistols for it. I do not have a 9mm pistol but just for curiosities sake I once checked a handfull of drifferent headstamped cases picked up at the range with a tubing mike. Besides some of the varying results checking around the casemouth of some cases, the neckwall thinkness must surely be something manufacturers don't pay the slightest attention to, or so it would seem to me.

In the above photo are some 38 S&W cases. I have 3 revolters in that wonderous chambering and they'll ALL accept a round loaded with a .363" OD slug. On the extreme left stands a sized case next to a fired one.



This is the ID of a freshly sized case using a Lee 38 S&W size die. At .357" it's a good 0.005" undersized. SOmetimes the die makers have an odd idea of what bullet or boolit size you're gonna be using. It appears they will err on the smallish side. Opening up that caseneck with a ho-made M die expander makes the case look like a Coke bottle. Excessive working of the brass is one thing.



Now I will admit the 38 S&W for all it's otherworldly performance is a rather squatty artifact and there isn't an abundance of room inside. Add to that some folks insist on inserting a super penetrating 200 gr slug (haven't had one bounce off the target yet ). Since the slug is almost as long as the case it DOES reach down inside a bit. Howsomever, having the case squished down to .357" at the mouth also tends to move the slowing thickening casewalls inward too.

Since in this instance the boolit is cast of pure lead (to aid that awesome expansion the 38 S&W is so well known for) it doesn't stand it in good stead, as may be seen illustrated by that handsome hardly used caliper in the right photo above. One may say "AHA!" when you get less then steller accuracy from your 4" barreled Iver Johnson break open night stand revolver. Or a couple S&W Victory models, either.

Having sizing like that take place with 9mm cases is going to cause about the same problem even NOT using pure lead. Having painstakingly cast some wonderous boolits, then lubed and sized them as one would for their carefully slugged 9mm pistol, you'd hate to have them modified by over enthusiastically sized cases. A slight boat tail anyone?



Happily 9.3x62AL pointed me to the Lee Mackarov dies for the mighty 38 S&W. These are intended for a jacketed .363" bullet and only size down the casemouth to .361" and as an added benefit doesn't effect the balance of the case much at all. The above photo is an "After" photo of a group shot after switching to the more correct Makarov dies. I don't have any "Before" photo's as the difference would be exceedingly illustrative. At the time they were not worth saving and about what I expected from an old Iver Johnson break open $6 revolver.

While that group above would cause the owner of a K38 to maybe take a good hard look at it for something like a loose barrel perhaps, the fact that it WAS shot by the above mentioned $6 IJ revolver is something else entirely. Especially since the front sight blade disappears from view when the peestol is pointed away from you, like if you were aiming it? I really hate to mention the load, but if you start low and work up you'd probably be safe. It was a prue lead Lyman 150gr 35863 WC over 1.6grs of Red Dot. This load is safe in MY 38 S&W, but maybe not yours

................Buckshot

[TonyT]

9mm has a good bit of taper, with a carbide sizer they basicly size the whole case to the mouth diameter, with 9mm that causes it to size near the base a little more than necessary. Loaded rounds can have more of a coke bottle look to them.

With a steel die that requires you to lube ; it is probably cut to the correct taper

ditto!

[Maj Dad]

I got a set of Lyman 45 Colt dies with a carbide sizer in the late 70's, but I really didn't like the way it left the brass indented just above the web. That's what your seeing: the carbide sizer is a ring at the base of the die, not a tapered segment, so it sizes the tapered case in a straight fashion as TonyT and others have alluded. At the juncture of the case wall with the base web, it cannot size it down as easily and you're left with the "waist". I did a little checkie-checkie metu-metu and found that the Hornady Titanium Nitride sizer is slightly tapered (or maybe made better; my observations only ). At any rate, I bought TiN sizers (38/357, 9mm Luger, 44 Spl/Mag, and 45 acp) and my cases now all look fine, load without problems, and to me generally are indistinguishable from factory cases visually/dimensionally. They are aesthetically and functionally pleasing, and soft to the touch...

[n.h.schmidt]

I thought I would chime in here
I have a 9mm Pacific made carbide die. Its from 30 years ago and still use it. It was made with a full legnth carbide insert. It matches the taper of the case. A lot like the carbide 30 carb dies . Also like the 30 carb dies you have to use at least a tiny bit of lube. It takes almost nothing but without it ,you will have problems. The unlubed brass would kind make a belt just above the extractor groove. The belted cases worked ok but didn't look so good.
n.h.schmidt