Loading for Marlin 38-40

[jmaurer]

Hello!
I recently acquired a very nice Marlin Model 1889 rifle in 38-40 with a fairly good bore (24" barrel, slugged at 0.406," minor roughness in the rearmost 1/4 of the barrel, with the rest good and shiny; strong rifling throughout). I've got a few pounds of GOEX and Swiss 3F, a good Lyman 40043, and as this is my first black powder cartridge rifle, I'm looking for suggestions and advice.

Reading over some of the posts here, I'm a little confused over the type of crimp and the degree of crimp that should be used for this cartridge with black powder. I'd like to obtain both a Lyman 310 die set (since the 310 tools comprise the bulk of my reloading equipment) and a more "modern" set of dies; are the RCBS "cowboy" dies what I'm after?

Also, should I cast from pure lead, or will straight wheel weights suffice for the combination I have? Are magnum primers advisable?

Thanks!

[Don McDowell]

I don't have a 38-40 rifle but I do have a Bisley clone.
The RCBS 180 gr bullet is a pretty good one, I cast it from wheelweights.
I like the Lyman M die sets for loading bp cartridges.
I shoot it mostly with 37 grs of goex 3f. but have loaded some Schuetzen 2f with good results.
You'll only need as much crimp as it takes to keep the bullet from jumping out in the magazine tube, as the powder should keep it from sliding into the case.
No magnum primers aren't needed. But if that's all you have on hand or can get the go for it.

[jmaurer]

Thanks Don. Given that my max bore size seems to be a typical (over)size for this rifle, do you think that non-heat treated wheel weight bullets will obturate enough to work well? I've not cast with the Lyman mold yet, but from what I can gather they usually throw a bullet around 0.403 inches.

[August]

The crimp depends on the bullet. Does the Lyman have a crimp groove? If so, seating and crimping are a lot easier and any dies should work well for you. Most modern dies don't set the 'shoulder' of the case back far enough to allow for easy chambering, so don't be surprised if this happens to you. Simply grinding down the case holder is a way around this problem. 38-40 ammunition comes from the factory with a very different shoulder configuration than the chambers of most guns have. Therefore, you'll have to do some trial and error testing to get the sizing operation down.

Most places you read will say to separate the seating and crimping operations on these very thin cases. I've found, if the crimp groove can be used, it is pretty easy to get things set up just right to do both in one operation.

I use wheel weights in my cowboy guns with no problem -- but they don't have any roughness in the barrels and are set up by top 'smiths.

I have a set of Redding dies in this caliber. However, I have some 'Cowboy' dies in other calibers and am very happy with them.

I think the real hill you have to climb is finding a mould and sizing die that will make bullets at .406. That's about 5/1000ths over what modern gunz run on.

Great cartridge!!!! The only downside to this cartridge seems to be the cost of brass, which is considerably higher than for the 44-40. Starline is your huckleberry.

[Harry O]

I have a Uberti Winchester 1873 clone in 38-40. It is difficult to get bullets for the 38-40 that are the correct length. The 1873 is VERY strict about the length that it will accept. Much longer or shorter will jam. I do not know if the Marlin is the same.

The Lyman 40143 does not have a crimp groove. RCBS has a mould that is almost identical -- including no crimp groove. They do not work in my rifle. The neck of the cartridge case is very thin and it does not hold the bullet in a tube magazine strongly enough. Eventually, one will slip back into the case and jam the gun. I bought an NEI with a crimp groove, but it is in the wrong place. It makes the OAL too long and jams. I also have a 401452, which was never intended for the 38-40, but it fits. Unfortunately, it is too long also, but I use it in handguns.

I have been buying bullets made from Magma moulds from various locations. They work for me. They have a crimp groove in the right place and the OAL is correct. The first ones I had were about BHN 18. They worked OK. I later bought some that were BHN 9-10. They seem to work a little bit better. As long as it is sized for the barrel, either should work fine. Since yours seems to be oversized, the softer would be better.

I have used black powder, Trail Boss, and Unique in it. I use Trail Boss exclusively now.

[Don McDowell]

Jmauer if you don't size those bullets, just pan lube or similar , they'll probably work fine.

[hydraulic]

I load .38-40 for a Colt SA, made in 1897, and a Winchester '73, made in 1881. I load with an old Ideal #4 tong tool. With black powder you don't have to worry about bullets being shoved back in the case, but I have had a problem with them sliding out under recoil. After seating in the #4 I run them through a Lee Factory Crimp die--problem solved. Follow Don's suggestions.

[jmaurer]

Thanks for all the responses. I'll try the suggestions, and if time allows I'll post in the future on how everything turns out. Since I'd like to keep things as near to what someone may have first used in the rifle, I'll only use black powder, the Lyman 40043 bullet, and a final touch from the Lee FCD. Again, thanks all!

[jmaurer]

Well folks, I just took delivery of a set of RCBS "Cowboy" dies in 38-40, and upon measuring the expander plug, I get a measurement of 0.40 inches. Since I've got the Lyman 40043 mold (I admit I have yet to cast from it to see what diameter bullets it throws) is it likely that I'll have to get a larger expander from RCBS?

Thanks!

[Don McDowell]

No just get a bit of a flare on the case mouth so the bullet seats without shaving lead off the edges of the base

[Speedo66]

I have a Uberti Winchester 1873 clone in 38-40. It is difficult to get bullets for the 38-40 that are the correct length. The 1873 is VERY strict about the length that it will accept. Much longer or shorter will jam. I do not know if the Marlin is the same.

The Lyman 40143 does not have a crimp groove. RCBS has a mould that is almost identical -- including no crimp groove. They do not work in my rifle. The neck of the cartridge case is very thin and it does not hold the bullet in a tube magazine strongly enough. Eventually, one will slip back into the case and jam the gun. I bought an NEI with a crimp groove, but it is in the wrong place. It makes the OAL too long and jams. I also have a 401452, which was never intended for the 38-40, but it fits. Unfortunately, it is too long also, but I use it in handguns.

I have been buying bullets made from Magma moulds from various locations. They work for me. They have a crimp groove in the right place and the OAL is correct. The first ones I had were about BHN 18. They worked OK. I later bought some that were BHN 9-10. They seem to work a little bit better. As long as it is sized for the barrel, either should work fine. Since yours seems to be oversized, the softer would be better.

I have used black powder, Trail Boss, and Unique in it. I use Trail Boss exclusively now.

You might want to try Missouri Bullets for some proper length bullets, with crimp grooves. I have an original Winchesterl 1873 in 38-40 and their .401 180g. round nose flat point cowboy bullets work well, plus they're very reasonably priced and they pack their shipments well. They use a soft lead for the cowboy bullets.

Is the Marlin 38-40 the same cartridge as the Winchester 38-40?

[jmaurer]

Speedo: Yep. The Marlin is marked 38 W (for Winchester; the Marlin company probably didn't like even that much advertisement for their competition).

And no problem (I hope) with the lack of a crimp groove on the Lyman 40043: the hardest I'll be casting from is straight un-heat treated wheel weights, and when I ordered the RCBS dies, I followed hydraulic's advice and picked up a Lee Factory Crimp Die, as well.

[WARD O]

As your mould will likely throw undersize bullets for your 406 bore you will probably find that a softer the alloy will work just fine. Perhaps 50/50 lead to wheel weights. Do not bother with sizing but rather try the pan lubing - it is easy. Fill your case with enough BP so the bullet will slightly compress when seated to the proper depth. Seat the bullet deep enough so you can crimp on the bullets ogive (up on the nose where it starts to taper), this will keep the bullet in the case from moving forward while the compressed load behind will keep the bullet from moving back farther into the case.

Pan lubing = stand your bare cast bullets up in a short pan (old cake pan or such), melt a good quality BLACK POWDER LUBE in an old double boiler or whatever works, just get it liquid, not hot and then gently pour it into the pan with the bullets. Pour enough to cover all the lube grooves and then go have a short break while the lube hardens up a bit. Remove the entire lube cake with bullets from the pan and make sure it is cool enough to handle. Now I just push the bullets base first from the lube cake onto a soft towel and the grooves should contain lube. Load your ammo......

Ward

[Superfly]

I just picked up a marlin 38 40 and well LOVE it it is a great shooter Perfect gun in my opinion i paid 200 bucks for it, Now i need a good load for it using 401 lee 175 grn tc is wha i have and it likes them feeds great and shoot great but my ? is What is a safe load with trail Boss Powder or unique The Rifle likesabout 7 grn of TB so far but that is hotter then the book says but itshoots so goodwith it.

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