Will I need a gascheck in .357mag fired from a whell gun?

[mcooper]

I want to push 158grain bullets pretty fast (I have a 6" model 28 smith). My lead at present is wheel weight lead (though I could add tin or antimony if needed to get hardness up).

I think 1250-1350 is the max safe velocity I'll get with that weight range bullet.

Will I need gas checks to avoid leading?

Thanks

Also if any of you guys can recommend links/books on casting boolits, melting lead, fluxing lead, and all this fun stuff; please let me know.

ETA, I can spell sometimes I'm in a hurry. I meant to say "wheel gun" in the title

[HNSB]

The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook has some great information in it.

Per the load data in Lee's Modern Reloading, Alliant 2400 at max will push a .357 to over 1600 fps with less pressure than most other powders generate to push that bullet to the 1250-1300 fps range.
Obviously start lower and work up, but you might want to look into 2400.

[mcooper]

The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook has some great information in it.

Per the load data in Lee's Modern Reloading, Alliant 2400 at max will push a .357 to over 1600 fps with less pressure than most other powders generate to push that bullet to the 1250-1300 fps range.
Obviously start lower and work up, but you might want to look into 2400.

Is that for a 158grain bullet?

I noted alliant's data for 158's wasn't over 1300, but that was with a jacketed bullet (2400 though).

I plan on running 2400 first...that's what I have a pound of right now. As far as I can tell I don't need to use magnum primers either.

[armyrat1970]

I want to push 158grain bullets pretty fast (I have a 6" model 28 smith). My lead at present is wheel weight lead (though I could add tin or antimony if needed to get hardness up).

I think 1250-1350 is the max safe velocity I'll get with that weight range bullet.

Will I need gas checks to avoid leading?

Thanks

Also if any of you guys can recommend links/books on casting boolits, melting lead, fluxing lead, and all this fun stuff; please let me know.

ETA, I can spell sometimes I'm in a hurry. I meant to say "wheel gun" in the title

Here's a link. Probably one of the best. Explore the whole site. Especially Index to all articles.
http://www.lasc.us/

[lurch]

As far as I can tell I don't need to use magnum primers either.

Some say you do, some say you don't. I guess it depends on the situation. Personally, I have had better velocity and consistency using the mag cap with 2400 in both the 357 and 44. I run both the 358156 and the 357446 to around 1350fps with 14.5gr. of 2400 and the CCI 550 from a 6" 586 (FWFL - good stuff but smokes a little). The gas checked 358156 exhibits no lead in the gun anywhere at all with this load. The plain base 357446 will leave a little wash in the bore but it is very minor and does not accumulate. Accuracy is excellent with both.

What you want to do is very much within the realm of the real world. Take it steady and work up. Make sure your boolits fit the gun though, or you'll be in for a nice evening with the cleaning supplies.

[Bret4207]

coop- it all depends on the load, the gun, the alloy the design. In general terms a GC will make high velocity much easier to achieve w/o leading or other problems. The Lyman 358156 would be an excellent choice for what you want to do.

[Down South]

I shoot a variety of 38 cal boolits in my 357 Mag and 38 Special. I don’t own a GC mould for the 38/357. The only time that I have any leading at all is when I’m pushing the envelope. Then the leading is not bad and doesn’t accumulate. My alloy is clip on WW + 2% tin. I mostly use 2400 powder for the 357 Mag.
The biggest factor is proper boolit size for the wheelgun you will be using. GC Boolits will undoubtedly reduce the chance of leading and can be pushed faster at higher pressures.
I like the 358429 for my 357 Mag. It’s a little heavier boolit (Approx 173 Gr depending on Alloy). The only problem is this boolit won’t fit all wheelguns. Some of the Smiths have cylinders that are just a tad too short to seat the boolit in the crimp groove but my Ruger GP-100 loves them.
I agree with Bret too. The Lyman 358156 would be an excellent choice for what you want as I have one of those too.

[Dale53]

I have shot .357 magnums for years and have never needed a gas check. I use good lube (currently Lars White Label Carnauba Red) - NRA 50/50 Beeswax/Alox works well, also.

As has been mentioned, bullet fit is key. Size the bullets to the cylinder throat. They (the sized and lubed bullets) should be a light push fit in the throats.

You are not apt to safely reach 1600 fps in a reasonable barrel length .357. 1300-1400 is about the most you will achieve with 158 gr bullets. You made need harder bullets at full velocity than WW's + 2% tin.

Dale53

[243winxb]

No gas check needed. Alliant 2400 13gr. 158gr cast lswc bullets, your choice of mag or standard primer. Alloy with 6% antimony, 2% tin. Air cooled, works well. Note: if bullets drop from the mould on the heavy side, the 13 gr load maybe your maximum. If bullets undersize from the mould, add antimony, or linotype.

[AJ Peacock]

...
Also if any of you guys can recommend links/books on casting boolits, melting lead, fluxing lead, and all this fun stuff; please let me know.
...

This site is great for info. There is also a great book that is written by a Yahoo group "CB-BOOK", just join the group and download the book (each chapter is a seperate word document) all total it is nearly 500pgs long.

AJ

[machinisttx]

Elmer ran plain based bullets at 1400+ fps without problems. His alloy should be around 14 bhn. Wheelweights are about the same.

[Bret4207]

Elmers alloy was more like 10-11, just a little harder than ww. Read Brian Pearces article in this months Handloader. Very good on this whole "hardcast" advertising hype.

[armyrat1970]

Elmer ran plain based bullets at 1400+ fps without problems. His alloy should be around 14 bhn. Wheelweights are about the same.

WWS are softer. Around 9BHN. Unless water dropping.

[softpoint]

I shoot both the 358156 gascheck 158 gr, and the 358429 plainbase,170gr. Iam starting to use the plainbase more, because it doesn't lead my barrels, even at top velocity.and I don't have the added expense and trouble of gaschecks.
You can use the 358429 with short cylinder guns, just crimp over the front driving band. Some have even used .38 special cases for the short cylinders. I would stay with the .357 brass.

[Dale53]

Here is a "Hardness of Lead Alloy" chart:


Elmer's alloy of choice for the .357 Magnum, .44 Special and Magnum, .45 Colt, etc was 16/1 Lead/tin.

I use WW's + 2% Tin. Magnum loads may do better with bullets somewhat harder than WW's, however, I have had good results with WW's + 2% Tin. If I need somewhat harder, I have bullet metal that will allow me to mix a 92-6-2 (lead/antimony/tin) for plenty of hardness without going overboard. Maybe I have been fortunate but I have not needed gas checks with the .357 magnum. I have had no leading and excellent accuracy with a number of .357's.

However, a number of people whose judgment that I trust have suggested that THEY have had better results in SOME .357's with gas check bullets (using the checks). The Lyman 358156 is an excellent bullet for those guns by all reports.

FWIW
Dale53

[GP100man]

mcooper
first let me say WELCOME to castboolits .gunloads forum!!!!!

I had Buckshot remove the gc from a 358156 hp mold & loaded em up over 13gr. 2400 cci sp primer in WW mag cases .

i started with a leaded barrel because i`ve had cuff fixed on the rt shoulder & unable to push brush thru barrel & i shot em left handed at my 8" gong at `bout 35yds. supported by the hood of my truck & a jacket .
I really suprised my self i hit it more than 10 times out of the 20 rnds i had loaded to try & even better the boolits cleaned the barrel of all lead none nada !!

the boolit checked 14 bhn 2 wks. after cast &lube with CR& is promising to be a shooter !!
this matches all testing i did with gc boolits , now to push a bit harder .

oh yeah , beagle has a article `bout this boolit in cast pics under barebottomed 358156.

wanted to add : lyman cast bullet ,& abc`s of reloading is good read but for the authority on castin & shootin boolits you won`t find a deeper well of knowledge rite here !!!
I know i have`nt !!!

[pmeisel]

Excellent chart, Dale. I don't cast yet but have been looking for good references, both for when I start, and when I buy cast bullets.....

[rbuck351]

It sounds like you are already casting something. If it is a GC boolit, you are probably going to need checks for 1250/1350 loads. If it is a plain base you should not need to go to a check type boolit if everything is right. ( bore size and smoothness,throat size vs boolit size vs bore size, boolit hardness, powder type and charge, lube type and so on) This being said, the only way you will know with your gun boolit combo is to try it and see, My guess is, you will probably have good luck using a plain base sized 358 with water dropped wheel weights and any normal lube at 1250/1350. 2400 is a very good choice for powder and I like the Keith type boolits.