Hate to say it 550 guys, but having owned a 550 and now owning a Hornady LnL, the Hornady is the better press. The 550 ain't bad, but it ain't a LnL.
Regards,
Dave
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Hate to say it 550 guys, but having owned a 550 and now owning a Hornady LnL, the Hornady is the better press. The 550 ain't bad, but it ain't a LnL.
Regards,
Dave
I don't think Lee has a kit for The Classic Turret Press, but Midway usually sells them with a set of dies. I bought The Powder Measure and Lee Safety Prime (large and small) separately. Although, you can operate the press without either. It would still be pretty fast.Originally Posted by Scrounger
You have to have "The Auto Disk Riser" to use "The Lee Safety Prime," with "The Auto Disk Powder Measure."
In regards to other dies, I've only used Lee dies. Lee claims you must use "The Powder Through Expanding Die" to operate "The Auto Disk Powder Measure." Unfortunately, that die flares the case to accept the bullet. So, it would seem like you would need one for each pistol caliber. Although, apparently, just one for rifle. It sounds like that puts you in a jam. Sorry about the bad news.
I do have a suggestion: buy "The Lee Powder Measure Kit," with "The Powder Funnel" for about 15 bucks! My take on that is it should work pretty good. The Powder Funnel should fit and stay real well in The Powder Through Expanding Die and The Powder Dippers that come with the Powder Measure Kit, should be easy to move fast with. It's just one more thing to do, but not a big deal.
FIY: Lee Dies come with Lock Rings and with those, you don't really need extra turrets. It takes less than a minute to change calibers and the lock rings "remember" where you should tighten the dies down to. So, that's just more money you could spend on Primers
Last edited by Esau; 09-08-2009 at 10:06 PM.
All good ideas. I read here or on another board, that I can use RCBS (or other) dies arranged in this order: Sizer; Expander; Lee Universal (one size fits all) Charging Die; Bullet Seater/Crimper. For rifle cartridges, the Charger Die is #2 and the Seater is #3. I'm going to go for the Lee Classic Turret, so I have a new in the box Lee Classic Cast Press for sale. Price same as Midway but I'll pay shipping.
Scrounger,
You don't want to sell that single stage. Trust me on this. You're going to find uses for that press and it goes really well as a set with the Classic Turret. How do I know? I have one.
BTW, with the RCBS or Hornady LnL case activated powder drop, you can also use an RCBS Uniflow very nicely atop the Lee Classic Turret. Do a search on my nickname and you should be able to find a thread with pics of the setup. Works great for rifle or pistol.
Also, the Lee powder through dies come with their four die and three die sets. I tried out one of their 4 die pistol sets and was so pleased, I sold off my Hornady pistol dies and ended up having change to spare.
Regards,
Dave
Have Fun
As my user name suggests I must place my vote in the STAR reloader camp. "Old" Star reloaders are perhaps the ultimate and first progressive machine for bullseye and target pistol shooters. Star did make 9mm shell plates and the favorite dies are the LifeTyme dies followed by the Perfection dies.
I have a STAR set up for 9mm with a Moon Unit Indexer and case kicker and Rich Daniels case feeder. Every pull of the lever results in a loaded 9mm round. All I simply do is place a bullet atop the charged and belled case mouth.
This machine is an early 1950's system with the above add on's. As far a dependability and ease of use and wonderful workmanship and materials used, there is not much out there that can compare to the original STAR progressive reloader.
Pretty much all newer reloaders tip their hats to the STAR design with the exception of the C&H 4D Autochampion Mark V which is a linear progressive press.
The STAR is worthy of your attention if high accuracy reloads made on a wonderful mechanism.
Cheers
Art
I was wondering when someone was going to mention the Star. So far it's the only real press I've used, as I have borrowed one set up for 38s from the club.
I've fitted a simple casefeed to it and is working on a collator.
It's a sweet press with quality feeling oozing from every part, but how does it compare to something lika a new dillon?
The star seems rather high priced for what should be an obsolete press with odd die threads and no factory support, is this due to superior quality or just hype?
The only thing I've messed up with it so far is forgetting to advance the shellplate after placing the boolit and ramming it all the way down in the case with the powder measure and sprinkling powder on top..
for you Star people check out www.starreloaders.com good place to be for imfo. Star is the best reloader that is why the star machine are still around and getting a big price. Dillion use to make parts for the star it was for reloading rifle amo. That was when he worked for TWA
Well, yes, the wonderful STAR reloader does ooze old time hand made quality and performance. The beautiful blued, hardend steel parts just snick, snick with every pull and push of the lever.
On www.starreloaders.com there are a avid group of STAR machine folks (yes including the wonderful STAR Lubrisizer) who provide support better than any factory could. There are also quite a few folks there that make/sell replacement parts as well as accessories for the STAR. Some machines are always being parted out or rebuilt and help is available there online.
To be frank, I have a Star set up in 45ACP that I personnaly have reloaded upwards of 60,000 rounds on over the last 25 years. The machine was used when I picked it up. It works flawlessly and shows no signs of wear other than the plastic powder magazine being darkened with age. They are a joy to use. You must consider yourself a caretaker for the Star as it will outlast you in most likelyhood. Cleaning the dies is the only annual task as well as lubing the main shaft and connecting rods. I use a shop vac to suck up stray powder from the works.
A good STAR ready to go with dies for one caliber and case feeder usually runs in the $450 to $650 range on the used market place. They show up on Ebay and Gunbroker on occasion.
Things to look for are wear marks on the deck of the STAR (rarely seen). Under the shell plate which holds the shells and rotates, there is a deck. Machines with massive amounts of reloading (say 800K+ rounds) use may show wear on the deck caused by the friction of the shells as they rotate. The deck can be milled smooth a few thousandths to clear this up.
Dave at CH4D makes dies for the star as do a few of the folks on the Star forum who are gunsmiths.
For pistol calibers, the STAR is the ultimate accuracy reloading machine. With indexers and case flippers added to it, it can churn out rounds as fast as you can seat a boolit.
You would do yourself a favor if you have the money to buy a 550 Dillon for your general reloading. The Lee Classic turrent second for that small reloading job where you need 250 or more for the next day. The Classic can be a single stage in just seconds. And next a single stage for that one case that needs to be sized, deprimed, belled, bullet seated or what ever the chore. Last but not least the Lee hand press for range work, camping, hunting trip or TV watching. Oh I'm sorry I talked too quick, a RCBS ROCK Chucker for those heavy duty jobs and using the RCBS Brass Shotgun dies. Ok let's see we have 5 presses and the gear to run them. Now you see why I'm broke as I just gave you my inventory of needed equipment. Ha!! Ha!! Later David
Shooter of the "HOLY BLACK" SASS 81802 AKA FAIRSHAKE; NRA ; BOLD; WARTHOG;Deadwood Marshal;Bayou Bounty Hunter; So That his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat; 44 WCF filled to the top, 210 gr. bullet
The Lee pro 1000 is OK if your pistol rounds do not need the factory crimp die,the one that sizes the whole loaded cartridge.It has only three die stations.
For rifle rounds that need neck expanding and the three fingered crimping ,nothing beats the 650 Dillon.
With both those machine it is practically impossible to pour a double dose of powder.
While the Dillon 550 ,where the shell plate is manually advanced ,in a separate motion ,may make you commit this mistake.
Started looking for the needed Lee items, they were just as cheap on Ebay as they were at Midway. Found a guy in Las Vegas who said he had everything I needed, I figured I'd rather spend the money for gas to visit my sister than to give it to UPS, so I made arrangements to meet him Saturday afternoon near the Red Rock Casino where we had lunch. When I called him, I got his voice mail. Twice. So much for that plan... When I got home he called me and said that his phone hadn't rang. Twice. Wanted me to come back over to get the stuff. That ain't going to happen. Then he said he'd let me know what it'd cost to ship it. Last I heard from him. I found another guy on Ebay who can match his prices and ship it for $16. Done deal. Still can't figure out the first bozo; I figure he was taking a nap and missed the boat, or got a chance to sell it before I got there and was just trying to stall me. Doesn't matter... I was going to refer other reloaders his way but that's out of the question now.
There's a reason why folks recommend Kempf's Gun Shop for those Lee kits.
Regards,
Dave
I realize this was not part of your original post but I had an LNL - sent it back and got an XL 650 with all the accessories. It was a lot of money, but it only hurt once.
I've heard Hornady has improved the LNL ejection system in the past year and that would be a help. It's a good - but not a great progressive. The free bullet offer is nice but you will have your press for a long time after you've shot the bullets.
Jeff
DISCLAIMER: all I have ever used have been Dillons. I have a 550 and a 650. The 650 is set up to reload .223 exclusively right now. The 550 is set up to load 9, .40 or .45, although flip flopping between large primers and small primers can be kinda inconveinient.
All of my friends that I know who I shoot matches with, reload on Dillons. Well there is one guy...he has a Hornady LnL the last time I talked with him.
At each IDPA Nationals, the competitors are required to fill out an equipment survey before they get their free range bags and other free schwag. The results of the survey get printed in the IDPA magazine Tactical Journal a few months after the National match. Easily 2/3's of the shooters reload on a Dillon. Probably more.
Oh, yeah, comparing a Hornady LnL to a Dillon 550 is kinda apples to oranges.
AFAIK, the LnL autoindexes, so that should really put it on par with the Dillon 650.
Also, AFAIK, the LnL doesn't take a toolhead that slides in and out of the press. I like having caliber specific/dedicated toolheads for my 650 and 550. Slide out the one for the 9, switch out the primer system, then slide in the dedicated toolhead for the .45 and VOILA! I'm cranking out .45 ammo.
Me? I take the time to clean the press when swapping calibers so about 15 minutes is what it takes.
It also takes about 15 minutes to crank out one hundred rounds of pistol ammo on the 550.
the 650 is a different story since it is set up for .223. I timed my friend once on his case feeder equipped 650. Extrapolating out how many he made in a minute... in an hour, he would have made 1,200 rounds.
with the lock and load dies its no slower to swap three dies in then it is to swap a tool head. Both need the plate changed and its a toss up there. I keep powder measures allreay set up for a few calibers and have ajustment stems set up for many powder charges so its just a matter of poping in three dies changing the plate and poping on the measure and snapping in an insert and im ready to go. I personaly think with the snap in bushing for the measure its actually faster to swap a hornady then it is a dillon. That is if you want to be completely ready to load a specific round including the powder charge. With the dillon you can do the same but you about have to have a measure set up on your tool head and changeing the powder bar is a pain in the but comparted to snapping in an insert. Im not saying the lnl is superior to the dillon. I actually like the case feeder system better on the dillon and think the mechanics for the shell plate rotation are better designed. But in my opinion the primer feed is slightly better and swapping calibers and loads are slightly faster on the lnl. One more thing that i like on the lnl is that the shell plates are much more ruggedly built. I broke proably a half a dozen shell plates on the dillon and i dont think theres a way a guy could break one on the lnl. Disadvantage though, especially with the new ejection system is the plates are as versitile. You cant do like you do on a dillon and use say the same plate for 45 acp and the family of rifle rounds that share the head size with the 308. I have two of the new lock and loads and one of the old style ejecting ones and actually think I like the old style better. I dont know why hornady decided they needed to change it. Its basicaly the same ejection system dillon uses and works just fine. We can argue to were blue in the face about which is better but ive used both extensively and know the quirks both have and its basicaly a toss up to me as to which is better. I bought the hornadys because of the free bullet offer. With a 1000 free 150 grain 308s if you factor that into the price there almost giving away the press. to be honest ive used dillon presses for 25 years and still have a 550 and if it werent for the free bullet offer i probably wouldnt have gone with the 3 hornadys but im more then pleased with them and hornady has been as good as dillon for tech info and replacing parts. When i got my first one i tried loading 45s and 308s with the same shell plate and the 45s were hanging up on the ejection boss. I took a file to it and got it to work but found out that after filing on it no other rounds would eject. they sent me a whole new plate assembly and when I called them i told them i had three of the presses and asked what spare parts i should buy and they sent me a seleciton of springs and high wear parts for free.
Like Lloyd, I've owned a Dillon 550 and have had lots of time loading on a 650. I've also had time to compare the rounds loaded on a 650 with those loaded on a LnL.
When it comes to pistol rounds, it's pretty much a wash. They all do a great job. When it comes to speed, the LnL beats the 550 and ties the 650. When it comes to warranty service, it's pretty much a wash, as both companies do a good job of servicing them.
When it comes to rifle rounds, the Hornady pulls ahead of both the Dillons. It has better runout on every cartridge a buddy and I have measured over the past year or so. I've decided that's inherent in the design. The LnL bushings or the individual locations simply allow better alignment than a toolhead does.
When it comes to powder measures, the Hornady measure also beats the Dillons and handles extruded powders much better. It is faster to adjust, allowing you to use only a single measure with minimal adjustment time for various cartridges. I used it for ten years before I ever bought another measure. Even then, I only did so because I switched to the Lee Powder through dies and wanted to try out the Lee powder measures and have a new toy.
The primer system on the LnL has proven to be more reliable than the primer system on the 550 I had. It's also easier to change calibers. It's also safer than the 650, because there's no line of primers running from the seating area to the primer tube to blow up and lead to a tube full of primers blowing.
As far as the advance, it's faster than the 550 and I don't get a sore thumb pushing the wheel. Everybody is different, but I hated the manual advance. I prefer the LnL automatic advance over the Dillon 650 because it doesn't sling powder out like the 650 can. It's simply less abrupt.
Related to having room, the LnL has more room for your hands to work. If you're a guy with big hands, this is especially beneficial.
On spare parts that wear, I've had my press about ten years. I've reloaded continuously on it during that time. No longer sure how many rounds, but plenty, especially in the first 7, when I was shooting high power, three gun, IDPA and IPSC. I never replaced a shellplate. I never replaced a spring till March of this year, when I decided to take the press apart, clean it, lube it and do a long term maintenance. So I replaced the springs, regardless if they needed it or not. Next year, I may replace the two feed pawls, as they're starting to show a little wear.
Primer disposal. The LnL primer disposal system routes the spent primers and primer filth through a tube and to any receptacle you choose, keeping the primer filth from contaminating your press. This saves wear and tear and you don't have to keep cleaning the press or deal with spent primers except when a coffee can or trash can gets full of spent primers. In the meantime, your press stays clean.
Rebuild it like you hear so often with Dillon presses? It doesn't show enough wear to rebuild it. I not sure it ever will as long as I keep it clean and lubricated.
I can't say about the case feeder, because I haven't needed one, as the press has always cranked out enough rounds without one to feed all my shooting habits with ease. I may get one this year, just to spoil myself. In the meantime, I'm mighty pleased with my LnL.
Ejection, the Dillon used to be a little better. But with the new system, even that advantage is gone. The EZject system is as good as the Dillon system.
Of course, with the free bullet deal, you end up getting the press for less money than either Dillon. Hard to pass up, especially for a press this sweet.
Regards,
Dave
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