Remington Rolling Block

[klausg]

Greetings-

I have posted this same Same information on the Remington Society's message board, but so far no hits. Hopefully some of you can help me out; I'll paste my description below to save myself some typing.

I've finally got my hands on the weapon, and was hoping someone could help me with ID/dating. The tang reads, "REMINGTON ARMS CO. // ILION, N.Y. U.S.A. // PATENTED OCTR 22nd 1901, (slashes indicate seperate lines). On top of the reciever is a serial # (?) of 22208, stamped. Approximately 8" back from the muzzle it is stamped "CAL 7MM". The only other markings I can find are on the under side of the barrel at the reciever. There is a long horizontal dash that almost connects to a stylized 'P' (possibly a 'D') the 'P' has a 'tail' on it that continues down and loops back to the left ending with what looks like a fish hook barb. There is an approx 3/16" hole bored approx 1/16" deep at this point. There is the remnant of another dash intersecting this hole, followed by a 'Y', (maybe a'V'), and finally a 2. The buttstock has the number '710', appears to have been put in with a nail, (the 7 is European style with a dash). above that is a '2d' that was done a little better. There are also a set of initials 'GC' carved, (not very well), into the buttstock. It is a carbine, barrel length is approx 20.5" and there is a saddle ring. Any help I could get with the identification and or dating would be greatly appreciated; thanks much.

The weapon is destined for a complete re-build and will probably be re-barreled to .405 WIN. Numrich has parts for a Model 4, (I believe this is a 4S) , will they work? I want to replace all of the exterior screws and the hammer & block pins as I will be having the receiver engraved & finished in French Grey and I fear that by the time I polish out all of the dings in the pins & screws there won't be enough left to work. I will be sure to post before & after photos upon completion; thanks much in advance, take care & God Bless.

-SSG Klaus

[4060MAY]

If it has rotary extractor and a screw just below the block pin,to hold the extractor in
it is probably a No.5 Action

[Steelshooter]

Remington model 4 and 4s are 22 caliber rolling blocks. If the thumb lever on the breech block is pointed straight up it is a 1897 model, if the thumb lever is pointed off to the right side it is a 1902. The action is made of steel so it will handled smokeless and black powder loads. Good luck.
Chuck

[Buckshot]

...............These were chambered to about 6 different cartridges including the 30-40, 7.62x54R, .303, 8x50R Lebel, 7x57, and a couple I guess I'm missing. At one time the then Numrich Arms offered replacement barrels for the big #1 Military action (of which this is one) consisting of a 45-70, which is no big as factory loads were safe in Trapdoors. Yet the other barrel was chambered in 444 Marlin which to me is sure stretching things a might when you consider possibly some RB's from the late 1860's early 1870's might have had one screwed on.

The factory 444 cartridge is a 44,000 lb cartidge and that is some chutzpah to consider barreling an old BP Rem RB with one. It is undoubtedly a testamonial to thier strength. Or at least someone's estimation of their strength.

I have a M1897 in 7x57. The barrel is marked 7mm SM (Spanish Mauser). Remington didn't serialize the RB's and any factory numbers on them are assembly part numbers. Usually the largest may be 4 digits. Any other 'serial' type number stamped on an outside surface was most likely done by the recieveing customer. Most factory applied numbers aren't visible other then the patent dates.

Since you are contemplating the use of this action for a sporter, and extensive work is planned, it will probably be checked, and that is the firing pin. It is common to find them broken. The firing pin retractor may only be retracting the back end of it. I shot mine for some length of time before I ever decided to check it. And yes, it was broken. The firing pin nose was about 1/4 the total length of an intact firing pin. If you tilted the breechblck forward the firing pin nose would appear. Tilt it back and it fell back inside.

The danger here is if some debris or damage wedged it forward and in flicking the block closed it might fire the cartridge.

A consideration you might make since RB carbines are relatively scarce, and especially if in any kind of condition at all, would be to offer it for sale and then use the proceeds to help buy a new modern one from Lone Star. I had several of these pass through my hands when I had my FFL and did transfers or recieving for some of the silhuette shooters at the range. Even the relatively plain ones were jems. One heirloom quality one graced my house for awile during the waiting period and it was a work of art.

....................Buckshot

[JSH]

I may get the idiots award for the week on this one. A local auction yesterday had a rolling block in 58 caliber. I looked it over top to bottom and could find nary a marking of any kind. I had a figure in my head and stuck with it. Started at $50 and I was going to go to $200 max. Well you know what happens. I went to $300 and it was at $475 and still going when I walked off.
There were about 40 guns there and all of them had been stored in a damp basement for about 35 years. They were rough and pretty much part guns.
An early WW 94 marked 30WCF, cracked forearm, shattered wrist, no loading gate or elevator and an early attempt to fix somthing with a hole drilled through the action 175.

Any of you have an idea of the rolling block?
jeff

[moodyholler]

Very early one in 58 US rimfire. More than likely. Made before 1868 when they standardized the 50-70. FWIW, moodyholler

[chuebner]

I have one of the Numrich Arms conversions. Just forward of the receiver is stamped Numrich Arms 45-70 Buffalo. The buttstock has a wicked curved steel buttplate that hurts just to look at it. The barrel is a heavy octagon, 1 1/8", 1:12 twist. It originally came with a bead front sight and basic elevator rear sight. I put on an inexpensive vernier tang sight from Cape Outfitters and a Lyman 17A. My best load is with a Rapine .460-500gr bullet over 65gr Swiss 2F. I seat the bullet .500 into the case which just touches the rifling when chambered. This load will stay in the 10 ring on a SR1 target at 100yd if I do my part.

Charlie

[klausg]

All- thanks very much for the information; you guys actually read the forums & respond. Based on what I've gleaned from your responses I'm assuming that I can order parts, (exterior screws, hammer & block pins) for a Number 1 from Numrich and, (hopefully), they'll work. Again thanks very much for all of your input.

-SSG Klaus

[wills]

another place you may find parts

http://www.wisnersinc.com/rifles/rem...oll_block.html

[mroliver77]

I bought one from Willbird a couple years ago that was his dads. It is a Numrich too. It is half Octogon half round. Somebody replaces the cerved butplate with rubber contoured to the stock. Nice job too. I have wondered at the strenghth of the newer ones built for smokeless loads. S&S out of New York had a tang screw and mainspring for me. Jay
http://www.snsfirearms.com/

[rocklock]

I bought one from Willbird a couple years ago that was his dads. It is a Numrich too. It is half Octogon half round. Somebody replaces the cerved butplate with rubber contoured to the stock. Nice job too. I have wondered at the strenghth of the newer ones built for smokeless loads. S&S out of New York had a tang screw and mainspring for me. Jay
http://www.snsfirearms.com/

Sure you don't mean http://www.ssfirearms.com/ ?

[jh45gun]

A number 5 smokeless action is a pretty strong action. I have one in 45/70 and have been advised by some pretty knowlegeable folks, Steve Garbe for one that these actions are good for the middle of the pack loadings for the Marlin rifles/Winchester in the loading guides. To be safe I would stick with the middle of the listings. I would not go any higher than that why abuse your self or the action but these loads are considered safe. These are considered to be as safe as the newer repo's. Now this is for the number 5 only 1902 smokeless action if you have a number one made in the black powder years you had better stick to the trap door loadings.

[bdoyle]

klausg,
I purchased a book from Track of the Wolf called:
The Military Remington Rolling Block Rifle -- by George Layman
They have it for $19 plus shipping. It covers your rifle pretty well describing the changes and revisions made between the 1897, 1902 and 1910 7mm rolling block. Changes in the stock, sights, screw patterns, block handle and extractor or ejector are the indentifiers. The 1910 is easy - it has a barrel band sight. Mine is a transitional 1902 with revised ejector but in a early stock. Good reading.

Brian