Swaging 22 LR Brass Into Bullets

[ETG]

Just out of curiosity... What kinda accuracy do you guys get with your swaged 22 boolits? Are these minute of paper plate?

Haven't worked up a load yet but loaded 50 up one grain below max with surplus WC846 (55gn using Blackmon dies). Shot a 12x scoped varmint AR off a rolled up blanket on hood of my truck - 10 shot groups were 1 1/2" at 100yds. Would have been sub-moa if I would have benched it.

[303Guy]

... rolled up blanket on hood of my truck - 10 shot groups were 1 1/2" at 100yds.

This is very encouraging! I will have to get my die making skills up to speed before I can hope to get anywhere close.

My next stage in die development involves a two piece die with a pushout punch. So far it is working great. (The internal dimensions are not quite right yet but it was dinner/beer time!)

Here it is. On the left is the ejector punch. The bullet under the end-piece is a fired one I reformed.


These are the tools I made me dies with. The top one is some bit I have, which I used to finish my first die, the bottom one is a drill bit I shaped on a grind stone, which I used to make my second and third dies as well as the ejector punch. (Shaping a drill bit is not as easy as it looks!)

[303Guy]

The die set is almost finished. It needs a final lapping of the mating faces, then off to be hardened!

Here is a sequence of the operation.

The modified die set. (The ejector punch now goes all the way through since the main die body is parallel)


Swaging the bullet.
(It only looks skew).

The die set opened.


Ejecting the swaging.




The bullet and a swaged boolit.


The visible ring on the ogive will be gone when the die set gets its final lapping, polishing and hardening.

This is the shaped drill bit I used to make the die set.

[yondering]

How much force does it take to eject the swaged bullet? I'm thinking of building a die set that would function in a Lyman Orange or RCBS Rockchucker press, and use the primer arm to push the ejector rod on the downstroke (handle upstroke). Does your die set require to much ejection force for something like that?

[303Guy]

The swaging comes out quite easily with my latest dies set. It still takes a fair force to swage the bullet. A strong redoading press should do it. Mine can't.

[pillardrill]

303,

to shape a drill bit I place it in a drill and whislt it's turning grind the tip against the grinder. Then I relieve the cutting edges, works better than I ever expected. How did you shape yours ?

[BIG GUN]

jdgabbard, I haven't tested any yet - I'm still developing my die. But this is what a fellow shooter on another forum has to say;



So, well' see what I can get with them.

BIG GUN, I have been thinking about that. How well did they shoot? I might go that route if I can't get the desired performance with paper patched 25 boolits.

As I recall, 2 moa was pretty common. I may have to make someore and try them.

[303Guy]

pillardrill , I shaped it by hand on the grinder. I never thought of spinning it with a drill! I'll try that trick for my next one!

After doing the 'final' reaming I find there is stil a 'defect' in my die! I really need stop and think before jumping in! I didn't understand what was causing the 'ring' on the ogive. Now I realise it's a mismatch between the two halves!

BIG GUN, could you post pics of the die sie up? How does the 22LR case get expanded?

[nicholst55]

My bullets I make out of 22 RF cases are shooting somewhere between 1/2 to 1 inch at 100 meters. It depends on who is shooting them and what rifle. We’ve found the 222’s are more accurate than the 233.

John

John: any idea why that is? Different twist rates, or just a more accurate rifle?

[JohnM]

Million dollar question….

I think the 222 case is more accurate than the 223 for a start at close range. I think the case still holds one or two BR records?

As far as twist goes, the idea is to go as slow as possible, as long as the bullet is stabilised. From example a 1:9 isn’t as good as 1:12 for the 53gr bullets I make that are mainly used for Rabbit shooting.

When out at the range recently, we found coating the bullets in hBN lowered the group size by over half in rifles that we have had larger groups in the past? Since then we’ve found in rifles that shoot this bullet very well, it didn’t make any difference we could detect. We believe the coating give better internal ballistics in faster twist barrels?


John

[303Guy]

... recently, we found coating the bullets in hBN lowered the group size by over half in rifles that we have had larger groups in the past?

A possible explanation for this effect is cacket heating due to bore friction. This could conceivably expand the jacket loose on the core. I have found evidence of this heating - actually heat staining the jacket and stopping the bullet in the bore (very light loads). The bullet is then easily pushed out with a cleaning rod. Some bullets that did not stop in the bore actually melted the synthetic fibre catch cloth!

[yondering]

303guy, what steel did you use for those dies, and what did you do for heat treating them?

[454PB]

Lighter swaged bullets for the Hornet are easily made using .22 short cases. Mine weigh 45 grains.

[dsmjon]

So that press damn sure isn't a Rockchucker...? Sorry, I'm just lurking & learning here..

[303Guy]

... what steel did you use for those dies, ...

I used high tensile bolts - 8.8 grade, not carbon steel capscrews. The only heat treatment so far is on the ejector and that was by heating to dull red with a gas flame and water quenching. The other bits are still being 'developed' (that means boo boo's are still being fixed! ) I tried slightly modifying the first ejector but it was too hard, so I made a new one.

Lighter swaged bullets for the Hornet are easily made using .22 short cases.

I don't have a supply of those but I do have a trick for making lighter bullets with long rifle cases. I'll have to make a sample and post a pic - tomorrow maybe. My interest is actually in as heavy as possible! Of course I still want a reasonable velocity - terminal performance is an issue (the hornet is to me a good training rifle because it forces me to think through each shot to make it work and I have had better success than my companions with their more powerful cartridges. Besides, it's a great cartridge!)

So that press damn sure isn't a Rockchucker...?

No, it's an oddball, not very well made, unheard of press. I actually used a bench vise to swage the bullet shown! I am planning a swage press and am still developing swage dies. I have had so much fun with my hornet but have had no success with casting for it that I put it away. Patching a 22 cal is a bit difficult for my clumsy fingers! But swaging using 22LR cases holds promise.

[MightyThor]

pillardrill , I shaped it by hand on the grinder. I never thought of spinning it with a drill! I'll try that trick for my next one!

After doing the 'final' reaming I find there is stil a 'defect' in my die! I really need stop and think before jumping in! I didn't understand what was causing the 'ring' on the ogive. Now I realise it's a mismatch between the two halves!

BIG GUN, could you post pics of the die sie up? How does the 22LR case get expanded?

303, on my setups the 22 case is expanded during the core seating process and the pointing die just maintains the .224 size. I have regularly heard of folks melting cores into the jacket and always wondered how they got their bullets to the right diameter cause I have never seen a pointing die that would do both.

When we used the same jackets for the 243 and the 25 cal We had to bell the mouth in order to start the core and then quit pushing before the core seeped past the punch. Jackets still expanded without much problem.

[BIG GUN]

pillardrill , I shaped it by hand on the grinder. I never thought of spinning it with a drill! I'll try that trick for my next one!

After doing the 'final' reaming I find there is stil a 'defect' in my die! I really need stop and think before jumping in! I didn't understand what was causing the 'ring' on the ogive. Now I realise it's a mismatch between the two halves!

BIG GUN, could you post pics of the die sie up? How does the 22LR case get expanded?

I dont have pic cabability. I drive the case through a die that irons out the rim, then when I swage the bullet it expands to the caliber.

[303Guy]

Thanks for that, MightyThor & BIG GUN. I had not thought of that! Mmmm... That gives me something to work on!
(More fun things to play around with! )

[303Guy]

Yondering, I see some unanswered questions you asked me! My appologies. I must have forgotten to post the reply. By now I have forgotten the pre-sizing swaged bullet diameter. I'll have to make one up and measure it.

[303Guy]

Right, Yondering, I made a bullet to measure and here it is; .234 - not bad since the die was made using a modified 6mm (.236) drill bit.