You guys were right about the 6.5x55...

[felix]

Don't forget the writings of 44man, BA, et.al. They have also contributed significantly to the knowledge base. Yes, it all boils down to keeping the acceleration curve constant and SMOOTH as silk for the application, and how you do that is the name of the game. Nine times out of ten the "load" needs to generate a high AVERAGE pressure while keeping the instantaneous pressure as low as possible when the boolit is at the muzzle. If that cannot be done, a boolit ablator (anti-ablation) is absolutely required.

These concepts should be much more easily adsorbed when compared to explaining one's religion and/or politics. However, to become a true believer/understander in anything, the person has to realize that his quandary is at rock bottom and he NEEDS help. Most of us do not need, but just want, and that is normal until that rock bottom state on an individual scale is met. ... felix

[Bret4207]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bret4207 View Post
Bob, with all due respect, isn't helping each other out what this place is all about? If we follow your line of reasoning on this then no information would be shared here, or we'd make cryptic remarks like, "...when you find out about proper diameter/alloy/lube/pressure, you'll be on the road to enlightenment...". That says nothing. People HAVE asked questions. People have tried various things and many have done a great deal of work on this particular rifle/cartridge combo and still find themselves stuck at 17-1800 FPS. So your saying that what they do hasn't worked. Maybe there is another way, one which is a quite different way. Maybe their understanding of what goes on is WRONG. They have to realize its wrong BEFORE they can make progress. DO YOU UNDERSTAND this simple fact. Bob, I understand I'm missing something or not seeing whatever it is you're talking about. Beyond that I admit you lost me. I've been saying that, I don't know how to put it plainer. IMO the "unruly spoiled child" is the guy who turns every post into an insulting tirade of, "Ha ha, I know a secret and you don't cause you're stoopit". Well, if you take it that way, then maybe you need to work on an attitude adjustment for yourself. People don't change what the do or act like until they want to change. You should know that. We've been through that before Bob. I'm not a butt kisser anyomre than you are and neither of us is likely to start now. And yet you can't understand why folks get po'd at you when you look down your nose at us. You still can't read people too well even after all the time you spent on the job. I don't look down my nose at you or others, I just wonder when they or you will comprehend that there are other ways of doing everything. A hundred people will basically have a hundred different ways of doing basically the same thing, with entirely different results. If theirs doesn't work, they keep doing the same thing because somebody else uses this and that while getting the same abysmal results also. You think a light might go on there someplace, Huh. There has to be some wiring for the light to go on man, that's what missing here, you don't give a way for us to get what you're talking about without kowtowing to you and that ain;t happening. We're just trying the honest normal approach.If you can truly take a Swede and get bragging size groups at something north of 2K that's fantastic! Good on you! Show us the witnessed groups. Share the info. Joe just showed you, or didn't you pay any attention, again for the umpteenth time. Open your eyes Brett...........Why turn it into a "Sorcerers Apprentice" thing? And if you're intent on NOT sharing the info I and others have several times. You either didn't pay attention or were to comfortable at your 1600 fps level to care., then why toss it up in our faces? Makes no sense to me.
Of course it doesn't make sense, you still don't understand.

It is extremely frustrating to try to get someone to see something they have never realized before. Joe took some time to understand it also, so your not alone.

I make no claims to be a genius. Please understand it's just as frustrating to me to see you dangle a carrot when I don't even know what a carrot is. I don;t think anyone is trying to be miserable about this, but there's a disconnect here that both parties seem unable to bridge.

[Bret4207]

Don't forget the writings of 44man, BA, et.al. They have also contributed significantly to the knowledge base. Yes, it all boils down to keeping the acceleration curve constant and SMOOTH as silk for the application, and how you do that is the name of the game. Nine times out of ten the "load" needs to generate a high AVERAGE pressure while keeping the instantaneous pressure as low as possible when the boolit is at the muzzle. If that cannot be done, boolit ablation is absolutely required.

These concepts should much more easily adsorbed when compared to explaining one's religion and/or politics. However, to become a true believer/understander in anything, the person has to realize that his quandary is at rock bottom and he NEEDS help. Most of us do not need, but just want, and that is normal until that rock bottom state on an individual scale is met. ... felix

Clear as mud Felix. Why is "ablation" required? Ablation means removal of material from the surface of an object by vaporization, chipping, or other erosive processes

I give up. I'm going to start buying bevel base hard cast bullets and complain about leading......

[StarMetal]

Don't forget the writings of 44man, BA, et.al. They have also contributed significantly to the knowledge base. Yes, it all boils down to keeping the acceleration curve constant and SMOOTH as silk for the application, and how you do that is the name of the game. Nine times out of ten the "load" needs to generate a high AVERAGE pressure while keeping the instantaneous pressure as low as possible when the boolit is at the muzzle. If that cannot be done, boolit ablation is absolutely required.

These concepts should much more easily adsorbed when compared to explaining one's religion and/or politics. However, to become a true believer/understander in anything, the person has to realize that his quandary is at rock bottom and he NEEDS help. Most of us do not need, but just want, and that is normal until that rock bottom state on an individual scale is met. ... felix

BINGO! BINGO! BINGO! BINGO! My hero Felix comes throught. Thank you very much Felix.

See Bret, even Felix didn't "just" hand it to any of you.

Felix I'm not mocking you....I really believe you are truly very very intelligent.

Joe

[felix]

I fixed it, I think, Bret. ... felix

[StarMetal]

Clear as mud Felix. Why is "ablation" required? Ablation means removal of material from the surface of an object by vaporization, chipping, or other erosive processes

I give up. I'm going to start buying bevel base hard cast bullets and complain about leading......

Bret,

Learn to stay away from wikipedia, it's not a very good place for real accurate information.
1. Surgical excision or amputation of a body part or tissue.
2. The erosive processes by which a glacier is reduced.
3. Aerospace a. The dissipation of heat generated by atmospheric friction, especially in the atmospheric reentry of a spacecraft or missile, by means of a melting heat shield.
b. The reduction or removal of heat-protective surface material by aerodynamic friction, as from a heat shield.

Joe

[Larry Gibson]

Bret

"Bob, with all due respect, isn't helping each other out what this place is all about? If we follow your line of reasoning on this then no information would be shared here, or we'd make cryptic remarks like, "...when you find out about proper diameter/alloy/lube/pressure, you'll be on the road to enlightenment...". That says nothing. People HAVE asked questions. People have tried various things and many have done a great deal of work on this particular rifle/cartridge combo and still find themselves stuck at 17-1800 FPS. IMO the "unruly spoiled child" is the guy who turns every post into an insulting tirade of, "Ha ha, I know a secret and you don't cause you're stoopit". And yet you can't understand why folks get po'd at you when you look down your nose at us. If you can truly take a Swede and get bragging size groups at something north of 2K that's fantastic! Good on you! Show us the witnessed groups. Share the info. Why turn it into a "Sorcerers Apprentice" thing? And if you're intent on NOT sharing the info, then why toss it up in our faces? Makes no sense to me."

I'm in agreement with you on this matter. I see from the latter posts from starmetal and 45 2.1 that we are still on a hunt for the "National Treasure"! I have reread starmetal's post several times and believe I've deciphered it. I will experiment with it in my next tests with the 6.5 Swede. If it works I will put it into plain English here for all to read "in the spirit of open exchange of information. Perhaps I do contradict myself to some. However I always know what I am talking about Getting the point across is sometimes difficult, especially when you are just responding to a post and not taking time to write it out, edit for context, etc. Also I have learned a lot since I seriously began the tests of the RPM threshold. My observations of alloys to use, GCs and lubes for instance has changed. I also have refined and narrowed my concept of the design of the bullet to use for HV cast bullets. Thus my current statements of what occurs and what takes place do indeed contradict some of the statements I made when this all started a couple years (actually several years back) ago.

I have learned and refined the concept of the RPM threshold. That all came about from the thorough testing I have completed. The RPM threshold is indeed there and it is alive and well as all cast bullet shooters continually find out. It can be pushed as I have always said and a few chose to do the work necessary to push the RPM threshold.

I disagree with 45 2.1 that my techniques do not lead to success. These same techniques have led to success in several other cartridges. I have posted results of my successes at pushing the RPM threshold numerous times. 45 2.1 continues to ignore that success. Even the success with my "ill fitting" 311291 out of the '06 during the testing that Bass and I did. 45 2.1 does contradict himself quite often. Starmetal, in this thread, has contradicted 45 2.1 also. He states the secret to success is not cartridge or barrel specific but applies to all. Thus if my techniques work with the '06, .308W, 7x57 and 8x57 why won't they work with the 6.5?............yes I know,........it's a "secret"!

Larry Gibson

[StarMetal]

Larry,

Of course rpm affects bullets. It actually affects just about everything in the world from a spinning bullet, to a spinning flywheel, crankshaft, drill bit...anything that revolves..hey hey...here on earth, ok?

Joe

[carpetman]

I have some rpm thresholds for sale.

[45 2.1]

I have some rpm thresholds for sale.

OK Ray, your the official RPM threshold salesman. Your biggest customer is going to be Larry Gibson. He's gonna need a bunch before he gets done.

[StarMetal]

Ray,

Those related to the thresholds on doors?

Joe

[Larry Gibson]

Ray,

Those related to the thresholds on doors?

Joe

Appears you've finally figured out what the meaning "threshold" is.


Carpetman

I see we're back to the sublime......You'll go hungry trying to sell those, everyone gets them free with cast bullets. Even Starmetal, 45 2.1, BaBore and swheeler get them free

Larry Gibson

[StarMetal]

Larry,

I think I've found out why I haven't gotten that 266469 to shoot. Soon as I shoot my corrected rounds I'll let you know if I was right or not. Problem today is it's been storming ALL day here in TN. This is one of the craziest weather patterns we've had this year so far for spring and summer. I'm fearing what winter might bring.

Stay tuned for what I find shooting these test loads.

Joe

[Char-Gar]

I remember a dozen years ago the bullet casters on this board were delighted to link up with others and freely shared information in the spirit of advancing the craft for all. Many myths and old wives tales were exploded and many folks, like me, benefited from the knowledge gained. Sucesses and failures were freely shared and everybody moved forward.

Somewhere along the way, some folks have turned in some sort of Boolit Yoda or Zen Masters. The old spirit of helping each other along the learning curve seems to have gone by by and has been replaced by a stingy jealous, possessive hide the ball mentality. Seems like they want folks to "sit up and beg" like dogs for crumbs of their wisdom.

Personaly I really don't give a rats a$$ about breaking the rpm barrier. I am just a retired old fun who enjoys pushing lead down a rifle barrel into as small a group as possible. I am concerned about what has happened to this place so many of us used to call home on the internet. Pity!

[StarMetal]

I remember a dozen years ago the bullet casters on this board were delighted to link up with others and freely shared information in the spirit of advancing the craft for all. Many myths and old wives tales were exploded and many folks, like me, benefited from the knowledge gained. Sucesses and failures were freely shared and everybody moved forward.

Somewhere along the way, some folks have turned in some sort of Boolit Yoda or Zen Masters. The old spirit of helping each other along the learning curve seems to have gone by by and has been replaced by a stingy jealous, possessive hide the ball mentality. Seems like they want folks to "sit up and beg" like dogs for crumbs of their wisdom.

Personaly I really don't give a rats a$$ about breaking the rpm barrier. I am just a retired old fun who enjoys pushing lead down a rifle barrel into as small a group as possible. I am concerned about what has happened to this place so many of us used to call home on the internet. Pity!

Apparently you do or you wouldn't be posting what you did. The story about how folks use to be is just that, a story. For your information it was posted here what to do....Larry Gibson finally got it and is going to use it. Felix got it (actually had it all along).

Nothing is happening to the forum. There is still tons of help here. Let me ask you a question, would you help someone hurt themselves? I know the answer to that and know you would not. Let's try another analogy. Would you highly recommend, promote, and tell how to others how to load duplex smokeless powder loads to others. Let me cover my bases here.....yeah, I know this wasn't a thread on duplex loads.

Do you want to know about my smokeless loads in muzzleloader? You want me to post those? Watch someone ask about them if you don't believe they are foolishly curious. Want to know how to make a Theodore Kaczynki Red Dot nail special. Charger, don't fall for Larry's down grading the danger of the technique.

Joe

[Char-Gar]

Joe/Starmetal.... I calls em the way I sees em! Deal with it!

[Jim]

I remember a dozen years ago the bullet casters on this board were delighted to link up with others and freely shared information in the spirit of advancing the craft for all. Many myths and old wives tales were exploded and many folks, like me, benefited from the knowledge gained. Sucesses and failures were freely shared and everybody moved forward.

Somewhere along the way, some folks have turned in some sort of Boolit Yoda or Zen Masters. The old spirit of helping each other along the learning curve seems to have gone by by and has been replaced by a stingy jealous, possessive hide the ball mentality. Seems like they want folks to "sit up and beg" like dogs for crumbs of their wisdom.

Personaly I really don't give a rats a$$ about breaking the rpm barrier. I am just a retired old fun who enjoys pushing lead down a rifle barrel into as small a group as possible. I am concerned about what has happened to this place so many of us used to call home on the internet. Pity!

Charger, What kind of beer do you drink? I'll have a 12 pack in the basement gunshop ice box when you get here.

[StarMetal]

Joe/Starmetal.... I calls em the way I sees em! Deal with it!

Sounds like you need to deal with it. What's that you say "I calls em the way I sees em"? Stressed out huh?

No wonder why this country is in such a political division. Here we have Jim wanting to buy you case of beer for your views on this topic. We can't even stick together as gun owners.

45nut...Ken you can go ahead and close this thread, it's deteriorated just when Larry and I are discussing things reasonably. Lots of hatred among some members of Bob and I.

Joe

[Bret4207]

Bret,

Learn to stay away from wikipedia, it's not a very good place for real accurate information.
1. Surgical excision or amputation of a body part or tissue.
2. The erosive processes by which a glacier is reduced.
3. Aerospace a. The dissipation of heat generated by atmospheric friction, especially in the atmospheric reentry of a spacecraft or missile, by means of a melting heat shield.
b. The reduction or removal of heat-protective surface material by aerodynamic friction, as from a heat shield.

Joe

I hate Wikipedia. It just happened to be the first non-medical definition I found.

[StarMetal]

I hate Wikipedia. It just happened to be the first non-medical definition I found.

Yes it was first on the list when I looked it up also. Nothing to do with you Bret, just looked at the dictionary meanings and they actually had something useful. From the way I understand anyone can edit Wiki..reckon that's where the problem comes in. Felix is a pretty sharp cat!!!

Joe