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Thread: You guys were right about the 6.5x55...

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy O.S.O.K.'s Avatar
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    Smile You guys were right about the 6.5x55...

    I just got back from the range testing some 6.5x55 loads that should have clocked around 2000 fps. The Lyman 150 grain gc boolits were cast from 1/2 ww and linotype and sized to .266" in my RCBS lubersizer and lubed with LLA. There was no leading whatsoever, which is good but both loads (29 gr RL15 and 35 gr w760) were crap - the boolits were not stabalized and keyholed the target at 100 yards.

    So, you guys that reported this before were absolutely right - but I had to try it for myself

    Now, given the total lack of leading, I'm wondering if I just don't need to push them up in velocity... something to ponder.

    My other cast boolit load (250 GC Saeco .358" - 356 Win - 2000 fps) did great though! 2" +/- at 100 yards out of my Marlin 336. I'm posting that down in the leverguns forum.

    So, the day wasn't a total "learning experience"
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    Yeah, that's it. Push the 6.5 a little faster. Yeah.
    Would we lie to you?
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy O.S.O.K.'s Avatar
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    Well, I know for a fact that higher velocities are fine - from experience with jacketed loads. The issue is how will the boolits hold up to 2300 fps or so...

    I won't be that worried if it turns out that I can only get 1500 fps and accuracy - that's fine for fun shooting at the range. I have many other rifles that shoot cast heavy boolets really well at 2000 fps.
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    I'm working with my "secret rifle". I can tell you it's a 6.5 and I can tell you it has an 8 twist..AND I can you (especially waksupi) that it will shoot high velocity accurately and without leading. I'm still working on somemore loads with a different bullet. I had/have problems with the Lyman 266469 mould. First one dropped at barely .264. Sent it back got another and it just makes .266, more like .265. Not to matter because the "secret rifle" has a modern barrel on it with .2639 grooves and with about a .256 bore. No it's not my 6.5 Grendel...that already shoots accurate at velocity with consistency.

    I was out with my AR15 Colt HBAR today and shot a 100 yard group that was 3/8 inch with a 55 grain loverin style bullet at 227,417 rpms.

    So don't you all doubt that fast twist at high velocity or rpm can't be accurate because it can.

    Joe

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by O.S.O.K. View Post
    ...both loads (29 gr RL15 and 35 gr w760) were crap - the boolits were not stabalized and keyholed the target at 100 yards.
    I cannot speak of W760, since I've never used it, but RL15 does not work well in low pressure, reduced charge loads. You might want to try IMR4895.

    Don

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarMetal View Post
    I'm working with my "secret rifle". I can tell you it's a 6.5 and I can tell you it has an 8 twist..AND I can you (especially waksupi) that it will shoot high velocity accurately and without leading. I'm still working on somemore loads with a different bullet. I had/have problems with the Lyman 266469 mould. First one dropped at barely .264. Sent it back got another and it just makes .266, more like .265. Not to matter because the "secret rifle" has a modern barrel on it with .2639 grooves and with about a .256 bore. No it's not my 6.5 Grendel...that already shoots accurate at velocity with consistency.

    I was out with my AR15 Colt HBAR today and shot a 100 yard group that was 3/8 inch with a 55 grain loverin style bullet at 227,417 rpms.

    So don't you all doubt that fast twist at high velocity or rpm can't be accurate because it can.

    Joe
    Well when you get the bugs worked out of that secret 6.5 Creedmore let us know some results, remember never tell secrets in corn fields, to many ears.
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    Quote Originally Posted by swheeler View Post
    Well when you get the bugs worked out of that secret 6.5 Creedmore let us know some results, remember never tell secrets in corn fields, to many ears.
    Good one on the cornfield Scott, not a 6.5 Creedmore either.

    Joe

  8. #8
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    Talking

    Oops I meant 6.5/270SPC! We have ways of finding these things out.
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  9. #9
    Banned 45 2.1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    Yeah, that's it. Push the 6.5 a little faster. Yeah.
    Would we lie to you?
    Shooting tin boolits out of a 6.5 doesn't mean much. Remember this caliber is the P.H.D. of reloading. Not many people even have a lettered degree here in CastBoolitology. If you do it with jacketed, you can do it with lead.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy O.S.O.K.'s Avatar
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    Well, we all know how swedes shoot jacketed pills.

    Thanks to all for the feedback!

    And just to be more specific about the target results - the keyholes were about 1/3 the length of the boolit - so they were yawing, not sideways. But still - obviously not stabalized.
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    On the 6.5 forum I have a fellow over in Finland asking me about shooting a 6 twist rifle. He has some friends in UK shooting that twist. And here we are with the slightly slower Swede, the 7 AR's, and my secret rifle with an 8.

    I've taken a lot of 45 2.1 home courses in how to shoot HV with accuracy in fast twists. At first I didn't do my homework and got lots of bad grades on my tests. Then I buckled down and things are starting to come together. Soon I'll have my degree!!!

    Joe

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy O.S.O.K.'s Avatar
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    So what's the secret? I mean to casting/loading?

    I'm using the Lyman 150 gc bore-rider mold - cast 1/2 ww and 1/2 lino - air cooled, sized .266", Hornady gc and LLA.

    6.5x55 - propellant, charge, etc.? Details, I need details!

    I'm hoping we're talking normal cast boolits and not paper wrapped?

    Last edited by O.S.O.K.; 08-31-2009 at 12:00 PM.
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  13. #13
    Banned 45 2.1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by O.S.O.K. View Post
    So what's the secret? I mean to casting/loading?

    I'm using the Lyman 150 gc bore-rider mold - cast 1/2 ww and 1/2 lino - air cooled, sized .266", Hornady gc and LLA.

    6.5x55 - propellant, charge, etc.?

    You have to have a ductile boolit that is the right temper for your pressure/loading. Shorter boolits that have a long enough body to reach the throat when seated at the base of the neck. Large enough diameter to fill the throat and nose engrave. Loverin designs are distorted less in the military Swede barrels. A slow powder amoung other things...............that burns at just the right pressure. Thats AA3100 and slower folks. The most important part is the way you put it together. It is NOT a recipe that you can take from the written word and accomplish. It is a hands on student/teacher thing because a lot of things can go wrong and you get abysmal results. Get it right and understand WHY, then you can do no wrong.

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy O.S.O.K.'s Avatar
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    But I've walked on the rice paper without ripping it... and snatched the beans from your hands...

    Seriously, you could say that about working up any cast boolit load. I do understand that what you're saying is that its even more important for this caliber...

    But there's got to be some general guidlines to starting out - use this design, alloy, etc., sized to this diameter (might be to match the bore), use this propellant and push to around this velocity. Experiment with all until success is acheived.
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    Quote Originally Posted by O.S.O.K. View Post
    But I've walked on the rice paper without ripping it... and snatched the beans from your hands...

    Seriously, you could say that about working up any cast boolit load. I do understand that what you're saying is that its even more important for this caliber...

    But there's got to be some general guidlines to starting out - use this design, alloy, etc., sized to this diameter (might be to match the bore), use this propellant and push to around this velocity. Experiment with all until success is acheived.
    Not necessarily. Most other calibers with normal twists can be receipted. The very fast twist small bore's can not. Takes lots of shooting...lead, primers, powder, and patience too. As little as 1/2 gr of powder or less can make or break the load too. Wrong lube can too. You have to have a lube that can handle very high velocity in a fast twist. One of the one's most favored here on castboolits won't do it. One that is mentioned that will has to be learned and that LBT Blue. Blue will not, I repeat, will not magically show you good results with a load that isn't going to cut the mustard. Because of that many who have tried it said it wasn't any better then all the other lubes out there. I was one, ask BaBore about that.

    Joe

  16. #16
    Boolit Master BABore's Avatar
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    Hah! Told you you had to have all your ducks in a row before you grease them up and season them for dinner.

  17. #17
    Banned 45 2.1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by O.S.O.K. View Post
    But I've walked on the rice paper without ripping it... and snatched the beans from your hands...
    That means you can do what the master has shown and taught you, NOT what the master can do and understand, so to speak. Understanding what is going on is 80% of the battle. Your choice of boolit and alloy probably need some revision. The last GB 6.5 mm will do what your looking for.

  18. #18
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    Well 45 2.1 gave you the bullet, I'll give you the alloy 50/50 that is ww's/lead. Heat treat them or water drop your choice. Then let them age before shooting.

    You got idea of a lube, maybe BaBore or 45 2.1 will tell you another. 45 2.1 told you the powder too. There's another step left out, which of us will tell you?

    Joe

  19. #19
    Banned 45 2.1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarMetal View Post
    You got idea of a lube, maybe BaBore or 45 2.1 will tell you another. 45 2.1 told you the powder too. There's another step left out, which of us will tell you?
    Joe
    That step requires actual knowledge of what it does. It is not a recipe and experimenting without knowing what your doing can get you hurt. NOT for general dispensation at all.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45 2.1 View Post
    That step requires actual knowledge of what it does. It is not a recipe and experimenting without knowing what your doing can get you hurt. NOT for general dispensation at all.

    Well.....that means when y'all start getting A's on your tests then you go to that step. Grasshopper, when you have mastered the steps, then it is time for you to leave.

    Joe

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check