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Thread: The next level of making PP boolits!

  1. #1
    Boolit Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    The next level of making PP boolits!

    pillardrill on Boolit Swaging, has inpired me to try out some new tricks.

    Swaging the prime castings!

    This one is a fired boolit, swaged and reformed and a hollow point with partially closed hole added!



    It is a two-diameter (if one looks carefully, the transition is visible).

    A fired two-diameter swaged boolit with recovered patch (low velocity). The patch came off at the muzzle (or at least within a foot of it).



    This is the other side of it - it hit the catch medium cylinder going in.



    And this is it re-formed.

    (Those defects aren't visible normally)

    Other re-formed boolits.



    The patched two-diameter boolit actually contacts the rifling leade when chambered. The bore ride section justs fits the bore at the breach end but cannot be inserted into the muzzle. As can be seen on the recovered patch, the rifling engages the bore-ride section of patch but does not impress into the casting.

    Think this might work on the range?


    I made a few extra bits for a push through sizer die I had made a while back (and had forgotten about).
    Last edited by 303Guy; 08-27-2009 at 11:30 PM.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  2. #2
    Boolit Master 1874Sharps's Avatar
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    303Guy,

    Wahoo, very cool! Let us know how it works out at the range. Maybe now you will be able to use the same boolits for the next 30 years along with the same brass (just kidding)!

  3. #3
    Boolit Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Hee hee! New meaning to recyling range lead!

    Say, does boolit alloy work harden? These things have quite a 'hard sounding' 'clink' to them when rolled together.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  4. #4
    Boolit Master 1874Sharps's Avatar
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    303Guy,

    I do believe that lead alloy work hardens.

  5. #5
    In Remembrance
    montana_charlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    A fired two-diameter swaged boolit with recovered patch.

    As can be seen on the recovered patch, the rifling engages the bore-ride section of patch but does not impress into the casting.
    Patches? Patches! We don see no steenking patches!

    CM
    Retired...TWICE. Now just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Patches? Patches! We don see no steenking patches!
    Oops! My bad - sorry! I have put in now.

    But here it is again.



    I thought the patch remnants were rather interesting as most of the outer layer seems to have disintegrated and there is partial cutting through the base section second layer. There is no sign of land to lead contact on the boolit.

    I think I have the shape I want now.



    Now that thing has a largish hollow hidden in the nose.

    Here it is patched.



    I find this boolit profile patches best with a cig roller. Prolly a good idea 'cause the boolit is rather smooth and the cig roller wraps 'em real tight!

    The only thing left for me to do now is load up a batch and range test them. Then I'll see if they actually work!
    Last edited by 303Guy; 08-27-2009 at 11:58 PM.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    Nice 303 guy looking good to me.
    I think they'll got just fine.

  8. #8
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    montana_charlie's Avatar
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    The recovered patch would not please me at all, but our disciplines are very different.
    Still, I think I would try patching just the rear half of that bullet...
    CM
    Retired...TWICE. Now just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    The recovered patch would not please me at all ...
    OK, the load was deliberately very light with the idea that the patch itself should survive and come off the boolit. (I've had some test patches stay on the boolit deep into the catch medium). Also, the boolit would be recoverable intact for examination. The fact that the patch was partially disintegrated seemed like a good thing to me. Although there was no rifling impressions on the bore-ride section, there were good rifling impressions on the patch section. How would you interpret the results?

    I'm trying to get the basics right before I even start range testing. At this point I think I have the casting and patch diameter just right. The nose section lightly contacts the bore when chambered. Is that how it should be?

    I could cover less nose with the patch but the nose section is way under bore size.

    In the process of this test I discovered a mistake I made on my
    test tube' mouth - it doesn't let the muzzle blast in properly!
    I'll have to fix that before I can do a full power test. Even the light load was loud! Louder than the full power load should be.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  10. #10
    Boolit Master 1874Sharps's Avatar
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    303Guy,

    Wahoo, I think you are on to something! At higher pressures and velocities might not the boolit obturate a bit and cut the patch a bit better? Also, the alloy can be varied to promote more or less obturation. I think the pathway you are on will lead to success!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    Although there was no rifling impressions on the bore-ride section, there were good rifling impressions on the patch section. How would you interpret the results?
    I want to see rifling cuts than go from the leading edge of the patch clear to the point where it folds under the bullet's base.
    The nose section lightly contacts the bore when chambered. Is that how it should be?
    Considering your ammunition is so fundamentally different from mine, I simply can't say 'how it should be'.
    I could cover less nose with the patch but the nose section is way under bore size.
    I would not apply paper to a bullet surface that will never reach bore diameter, or larger, before leaving the muzzle. If a heavier charge will cause that, the 'long patch' may be fine.
    But, I suspect no smokeless charge is going to accomplish it unless that's a real soft bullet.

    I am (currently) adjusting the width of my own patches to get a full-length cut.
    My 'bad ones' come much closer to that than yours, and they are still recovered in 'pieces' rather than 'shreds'.

    I can't say that it will really matter. A target is the only way to know.

    But, your long, light-weight, skinny bullet is much more prone to destabilization (than mine) from having a patch yanking on it.
    I guess it comes down to how hard the yanking is...and how long it lasts.

    CM
    Retired...TWICE. Now just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Thanks for that, montana_charlie.

    Well, I have decided on a boolet weight (225gr - RN HP). I'll just have to cast and swage a batch, patch 'em and shoot 'em 'n see what happens.
    If they don't work well, I'll have something to go on for the next trial.

    I'll also do a full-power 'test tube' trial to see if I can capture the paper fragments.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  13. #13
    Boolit Master bullbarrel033's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    Oops! My bad - sorry! I have put in now.

    But here it is again.



    I thought the patch remnants were rather interesting as most of the outer layer seems to have disintegrated and there is partial cutting through the base section second layer. There is no sign of land to lead contact on the boolit.

    I think I have the shape I want now.



    Now that thing has a largish hollow hidden in the nose.

    Here it is patched.



    I find this boolit profile patches best with a cig roller. Prolly a good idea 'cause the boolit is rather smooth and the cig roller wraps 'em real tight!

    The only thing left for me to do now is load up a batch and range test them. Then I'll see if they actually work!
    Nice work! Exactly what i want to play with!!!
    THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN HIT THE CENTRE OF THE TARGET IS WITH A CENTREFIRE!!!

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

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    303guy, can you describe using cig roller. I been thinking about pp with some .30 cal boolits for .308.
    Maker of Silver Boolits for Werewolf hunting.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    I would like to think a typical patching for your boolit would shred at muzzle end. But I'm not sure your current patching will ever accommodate this boolits need. It appears the forward patch material isn't shred/ opening do to the rifling's light engraving observed. Maybe the trick in getting your swagged boolit to preform requires a patch that not only wraps but too fills in that stretch of void or undersize circumference.

    "What your attempting to do/try is pretty darn cool three 0 three guy."
    "JUST A OLD DEPLORABLE THAT'S IRREDEEMABLE."

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1874Sharps View Post
    303Guy,

    I do believe that lead alloy work hardens.
    Lead alloys do NOT work-harden, they soften.

    http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chap...Metallurgy.htm
    "Only two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity.......and I'm not sure about the universe..........."

    Albert Einstein

  17. #17
    Boolit Master

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    I've tried the cigarette roller but found it easier to roll by hand.

    Different strokes.

    I don't patch much anymore but was for a while. .30 cal isn't bad to do especially when they're long like a 170 to 200 gr. .303 boolit. I did some 100 gr. and that was much more finicky. They weren't terribly accurate either. I think too much jump to the rifling. I got round holes but big groups.

    Longbow

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check