End of an era!!!!!!!!!!

[Old Ironsights]

You could always help me get the hail out of Chicago and buy some of mine...

[fredj338]

Joe.

Thanks for the comment and suggestion? What do folks think is an ideal mix for hollow points? I imagine it's driven more by Brinell hardness than what's in it, but what would most think is ideal?

Pete

I've been experimenting w/ several molds & I think 25-1 for vel. above 900fps-1200fps & down to 30-1 for vel. below 900fps works great.

[geargnasher]

Joe.

Thanks for the comment and suggestion? What do folks think is an ideal mix for hollow points? I imagine it's driven more by Brinell hardness than what's in it, but what would most think is ideal?

Pete

Pete,

I commented on this in a reply email I sent to you this evening regarding my previous inquiry into "range scrap", thought my 2 cents might be helpful to others if I posted here as well.

In particular, I wanted to lay in a supply of range scrap because I shoot steel with .45 Colt and lots of Hollow point .45 ACP, and alloy choice isn't driven by hardness alone, it's mainly composition. I air cool, mostly, so whatever the BHN is when I achieve the correct malleability and toughness I could care less. An alloy that tests at 12 bhn might be mostly antimony and arsenic and explode into brittle fragments when hitting silhouettes and not cast worth a darn, or the same BHN can be achieved with just binary lead/tin and you can mash it into foil-thin sheets with a hammer and will fill out a Loverin Cruise Missile at 650 degrees.

What I look for in a general-use alloy is something like 2-3% antimony, 1.5-2% tin, mebbe a pinch of arsenic (only if I'm heat-treating, mainly rifle), and if it has a little copper or babbit trace alloys (under 2% total) I don't really care. The remainder, obviously, being lead!

Most range scrap I've gotten has been about right due to about a 50/50 mix of soft, almost pure, cores and commercial Hardcast. The occasional small percentage of Homecast that ever gets in public range scrap is only that much better, because most folks who roll their own use a good alloy anyway and is kind of a "neutral" in the mix.

I've used mostly WW + about 4% 50/50 solder for years because of availability and you just about can't beat it unless you're needing a specialty alloy or are shooting lots of steel and/or hollow-points and don't want that much antimony. Seems that antimony content has increased (or maybe it's arsenic, I don't know for sure) and WW have become increasingly brittle. If I use them now (and they're getting scarce here) I usually add about 40-50% scrap sewer-pipe seals to increase the malleability and that makes my hollow-points happy, but that gets expensive.

Anyway, If I'm going to have to buy my casting alloy, I'm getting to where I prefer typical range stuff to any of the commercial alloys available even if I have to add tin, because it has just about he right amount of antimony for the price.

Gear

[XWrench3]

first of all, BITE YOUR TOUNGE! i just got into boolit casting, i do not want it to be over before it has begun! second, even if everybody switches to steel wheel weights, it will take years for all the old ones to disapear. so most of us will not run out for a while. also, this sounds like a good "scare tactic" to drive the price of wheel weights out of proportion. shame on you.

[qajaq59]

I went to the range yesterday and fired a 100 .308s, which comes to about 2.5 pounds. Then I picked up 5 pounds of lead from the back stop for the pistol range.
Now if I could just keep that up I'd be all set.

[BrianB]

first of all, BITE YOUR TOUNGE! i just got into boolit casting, i do not want it to be over before it has begun! second, even if everybody switches to steel wheel weights, it will take years for all the old ones to disapear. so most of us will not run out for a while. also, this sounds like a good "scare tactic" to drive the price of wheel weights out of proportion. shame on you.

I think you're right. There is no shortage and won't be for a while, even if lead wheel weight production stops. Currently, there doesn't seem to be an issue in my area. My dad called me last night and said he got over 100 pounds for me for free from the repair shop he has used for years. If people start hoarding like they have done with primers, etc., we'll see prices go up and a shortage...just like what we currently see with primers and powder.

[fredj338]

first of all, BITE YOUR TOUNGE! i just got into boolit casting, i do not want it to be over before it has begun! second, even if everybody switches to steel wheel weights, it will take years for all the old ones to disapear. so most of us will not run out for a while. also, this sounds like a good "scare tactic" to drive the price of wheel weights out of proportion. shame on you.

I wouldn't count on year. The major tire shop I have been getting mine from puts them up in 3gal bucckets, about 110#. The first of the year, the buckets were mostly lead wts, some znce, some steel. The last bucket I got in June was almost 25% non lead wts. The tire stores have been mnadated to switch by the end of Dec. here. That means they have already stopped ordering lead based ww in June. The supply out here is already dwindling. I would expect to find little to none this time next year. It is very location specific though.

[Zbench]

Guys...I think the evidence is anecdotal based on the comments here, but thinking about a similar situation with primers, is is really unreasonable?

I mean manufacturers are still making primers and the demand still has them out of stock. Think of the reverse, the demand remains steady and the supply is gone. Is it reasonable to think that WW will always be around forever if no one is using them and deman remains constant or goes up? I have to believe that big places have always sold to folks who refine lead.

The picture is not rosy in my opinion.

Pete

[qajaq59]

We may someday run out of WWs, but lead isn't going anywhere. However, you can look for the do-gooders to try and outlaw it for bullets as they did for shot guns loads.

[D.A.C.]

Buddy and I bought 1200lbs of wheels/weights/lead melted into 1lb ingots from an old widow lady the other day.

[PatMarlin]

Buddy and I bought 1200lbs of wheels/weights/lead melted into 1lb ingots from an old widow lady the other day.

See- there yya go ..!

[jbc]

Joe.

Thanks for the comment and suggestion? What do folks think is an ideal mix for hollow points? I imagine it's driven more by Brinell hardness than what's in it, but what would most think is ideal?

Pete

As others have said 16-1 to 25-1 lead to tin is a good mix but the biggest thing is not to have too much antimony because of the brittleness it causes. Here is one good article talking about the subject and there are many more on this site to steer you in the right direction.
http://www.lasc.us/FryxellExpansionOfCastHP.htm

[fredj338]

Just to add to this. I went by my tire guy yesterday & he had two more 3gal buckets, about 105# each. He won't let me pay for them, which I am greatful, but I am working him for a buy on all his remaining lead ww stock when the ban goes into affect.
I have already seen the affect though. When I was getting buckets in feb, 85%+ was useable lead wts. Theses last two buckets are down to 75% or so useable. A lot more zinc & steel. The owner stopped buying lead based wts. in June in prep for the ban. I imagine other have too. Again, get what you can & stack it deep!

[firescout]

Something to consider here in Calif: the shops will start installing NEW non-lead WWs on Jan 1, but they will still be removing old lead WWs for months to come.

So the tire shops will still have a significant amount of scrap lead WWs well into next year.