Question on .30-06 and Unique...

[Echo]

I suppose a 180 gr. bullet in .17 caliber is possible, but that would be a heck of a long bullet requiring a very, very fast twist.
Selmerfan

And set a new record for freebore (measured with a ruler)...

[dsmjon]

nonnono, no spire points in the lever gun.. These I guess would be JSP-FN?

[dsmjon]

Actually I might be getting senile in my young age. I was shooting 165gr cast, sized @ .308". (Where earlier I said 135gr). I forget the brand name, the only cast available at the time from Midway. To clear my mind, if I slugged the barrel to .308" (max OD of boolit after slugging), use .308" jacketed or .310" cast?

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

Actually I might be getting senile in my young age. I was shooting 165gr cast, sized @ .308". (Where earlier I said 135gr). I forget the brand name, the only cast available at the time from Midway.

OK, the 165 gr boolit is going to need a lower starting load than was previously suggested.
Drop the 4895 starting load down to 24gr., work up by 1 gr, suggested max is 29gr.
Drop the Unique starting load down to 7gr., work up by 0.4gr, max is 10.6gr.

To clear my mind, if I slugged the barrel to .308" (max OD of boolit after slugging), use .308" jacketed or .310" cast?

Use the bore diameter for J-word boolits, 0.001" over for cast.

[Three44s]

For a guy that shoots dimes 4 out of 5 shots at 200 yards with a 180gr pill.

This thread is the saddest thing Ive ever read.

If you want a weenie firearm, but the kids a 17Hmr.

Sad?

Weenie firearm?

Wrong forum?

Three 44s

[NickSS]

I have fired litterally thousands of 30-06 rounds with cast bullets loaded with Unique. Most shooting was done at 100 yards and used a Lyman 165 gr RNGC bullet cast from wheel weights air cooled. My standard load was 15 gr of Unique and in my Sako the average group size for a five shot group was approximately 1 to 1.25 inches. This was day in and day out. One other thing I noted was that this load would completely penetrate a 12 inch diameter Douglass fir tree.

[qajaq59]

What some people should keep in mind is that many of us are 70+ and have arthitis in all the places where we got smashed up doing all the stupid, crazy, macho, manly things as young guys. But hopefully, if you're really lucky, you'll get to our age and end up just like we are. It's easy..... all you have to do is wait!!!
Have fun, but try not to break too many bones, because they hurt like hell 50 years later. ha ha ha

[Brother_Love]

I am going to the range (backyard) tomorrow morning with these loads. These are Lyman 311413 bullets at 172 grs each over 15.0 grains of Unique, FC cases, 30/06. If they shoot as good as they look, I will be real happy with them.
Malcolm

[lead-1]

Looks good, if you would check back in and let us know how they do.

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

I am going to the range (backyard) tomorrow morning with these loads. These are Lyman 311413 bullets at 172 grs each over 15.0 grains of Unique, FC cases, 30/06. If they shoot as good as they look, I will be real happy with them.
Malcolm

Hiya Malcolm,
Those boolits look bootiful

However, I think you're going to find that 15gr of Unique is a bit too fast for that boolit.
Since you're SO fortunate to have a range in the backyard, could ya do us a favor and try some of these boolits with 12gr to 14grs of Unique to see how those loads group?
12gr should get around 1510 fps. 16.5 would put you at around 1850 fps, and I know that's at least 200 fps too fast.

My Dad found that 15gr of IMR 4759 with that boolit could make 2-1/8"x 2-7/8" groups at 200 yards. Unique is a much faster-burning powder than 4759. One of the big problems with these boolits is that trying to drive them hard will get the boolit cocked sideways in the barrel.

I'm looking at the NRA Illustrated Reloading Handbook, published in 1960, at an article entitled "Cast Bullets in Rifles, General Considerations, part 1 of 4" by Col. E. H. Harrison, USA (Ret'd). On page 93, there is a picture of a pair of what looks like these exact boolits, one fired with 10gr Unique, and one fired with 18gr Unique. The one fired with 10gr looks perfectly normal; but the one fired with 18gr was very obviously badly cocked sideways in the rifling, causing the boolit to yaw wildly inaccurate on leaving the barrel.

I'm thinking that around 14gr to 17gr 2400 would be a better choice than Unique, because it's much slower burning - not as slow as 4759 though.

I'm thinking of trying even slower powders again. I'd used 25g to 35g H4895 with them back in the early 70's, but unfortunately I didn't record what the results were. (I was 16 then; I guess I figured I'd remember it forever, right? )

[qajaq59]

I'd be interested to see how well they did with the Unique. I tried several powders with them in my 308 and the only really good results were A2400. That works real well.

[Brother_Love]

Back from backyard! first group to sight in a 25 yds, 3 shots in 1.25"! I was pumped and moved the target to 50 yds. Best group I got at 50 was a disappointing 2.2".

On the up side, I have 20 empty shells to reload. I am going to drop back to 12.5 & 13.5 grs of Unique. If that does have some promise I will buy some 2400 or 4759.

Malcolm

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

I'd be interested to see how well they did with the Unique. I tried several powders with them in my 308 and the only really good results were A2400. That works real well.

Would you care to share what powders and loads you've tried with that boolit that did and did not work well with that boolit? It seems that a number of others here have the same or similar spire-point molds. It could be helpful to all of us if we share such information.

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

Back from backyard! first group to sight in a 25 yds, 3 shots in 1.25"! I was pumped and moved the target to 50 yds. Best group I got at 50 was a disappointing 2.2".

How do the holes through the target look? Are they perfectly concentric, or is there evidence that the boolits were yawing? I'm betting on the latter.
How hard are the boolits? Are you using air-cooled WW's or something else?

The boolits we were testing many years ago were all cast of pure lead, Lyman loob, sized to 0.309"

On the up side, I have 20 empty shells to reload. I am going to drop back to 12.5 & 13.5 grs of Unique. If that does have some promise I will buy some 2400 or 4759.

Do you have some H4895 or IMR 4895 around? I'm thinking that somewhere in the range of 25gr-30gr might just work pretty well with these boolits. 4895 is a good bit slower than 4759, so would give even a more gentle push down the barrel, which seems to be what's needed.

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

Here's a scan of the photo in the article I mentioned earlier.

It sure looks like these 311413 boolits, or a very close copy.

[qajaq59]

Would you care to share what powders and loads you've tried with that boolit that did and did not work well with that boolit? It seems that a number of others here have the same or similar spire-point molds. It could be helpful to all of us if we share such information.

It was a couple of the guys in here that put me onto the 2400. That was accurate anywhere between 14 and 16 GRS so I never went higher. and I remember trying IMR 3031 because it works well in my 30-30s and I had it handy. But I couldn't get a good group. The other powder I don't recall. It's been a while.

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

It was a couple of the guys in here that put me onto the 2400. That was accurate anywhere between 14 and 16 GRS so I never went higher. and I remember trying IMR 3031 because it works well in my 30-30s and I had it handy. But I couldn't get a good group.

Very interesting, thanks. 2400 was one of the powders I was considering; I just don't happen to have any.

IMR 3031 is pretty tough to use with a powder throw because of it's long grain and tendency to "bridge". Those little logs gave me some fits when I was loading .223 Rem with it; wound up weighing every charge and watching them bridge as they slid down the funnel.

Do you remember if you weighed your loads when you tried 3031? I was considering trying it again with these boolits, but not much point in that if you're pretty certain the charges were reasonably accurate.

My Dad had tried IMR 3031 with this boolit back in 1957 in .30-06 at 31gr to 35gr; all results were recorded as "inaccurate." I was considering going to a lower charge, but I don't know how well 3031 would do that far below the minimums.

I'd experiment with SR 4759 some more, but haven't been able to find it lately.

[qajaq59]

Very interesting, thanks. 2400 was one of the powders I was considering; I just don't happen to have any.

IMR 3031 is pretty tough to use with a powder throw because of it's long grain and tendency to "bridge". Those little logs gave me some fits when I was loading .223 Rem with it; wound up weighing every charge and watching them bridge as they slid down the funnel.

Do you remember if you weighed your loads when you tried 3031? I was considering trying it with these boolits, but not much point in that if you're pretty certain the charges were reasonably accurate.

I'd experiment with SR 4759 some more, but haven't been able to find it lately.

I'd say the 2400 is worth a try. I'm unable to walk far enough to put up targets at 100 yards, but at 50 I use 1 inch dots for targets and that #311413 with the 2400 will generally make them disappear pretty quickly. And I'm certainly no ace when it comes to accuracy, so they can't be too bad.
When I'm working up a load I usually weigh every round for the first 50, so my guess is I weighed the 3031. I can't remember how much I used though because I got the starter load from somewhere in the web. I didn't have the #311413 in any of my manuals. But it wasn't even close to the accuracy of the 2400.
And because years ago I had 3 squibs in a row, I now use a clear funnel to drop powder from my measure regardless what kind of powder it is. I want to see it fall. It's a bit slower, but I have lots of time.

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

Great, thanks!

I'd forgotten about this thread:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=41474
It's all about the 311413, but should apply to other similar spire-point lead boolits. Looks like other folks here have gotten good results from 2400.

I'd also forgotten that my Dad had tried 20gr of 3031 with this same boolit, and had only fair results; 7-1/2" x 4" @ 200 yards. I don't know for certain whether or not he weighed all of his charges, but he probably did. It's likely that 3031 went right from pooshing the boolit too fast down to sporadic ignition due to the reduced charge in the large case size.

[Brother_Love]

How do the holes through the target look? Are they perfectly concentric, or is there evidence that the boolits were yawing? I'm betting on the latter.

They looked concentric, but I am using targets printed on copier paper and it is hard to tell on that kind of paper. I will retreive them later this morning and check closer.

Added a couple of target photos. I ironed them flat so I could see better. They look concentric to me. In the photo with 2 targets; left 25 yds; right 50 yds.



How hard are the boolits? Are you using air-cooled WW's or something else?

I am using Lyman #2 alloy.

The boolits we were testing many years ago were all cast of pure lead, Lyman loob, sized to 0.309"

Mine were sized at .309" too. I am slugging the bore today and may try some sized at .311".
Bore slugged with groove dia of .3096, I WILL try the .311" sized boolits now. This is a jc higgins model 50, FN action and will shoot factory ammo into 1" consistantly. I know there has to be a good cast load out there somewhere. I hope to find it!



Do you have some H4895 or IMR 4895 around? I'm thinking that somewhere in the range of 25gr-30gr might just work pretty well with these boolits. 4895 is a good bit slower than 4759, so would give even a more gentle push down the barrel, which seems to be what's needed.

I have no 4895 or 2400 and unfortunately neither did either of my local sources. I am going to try a 12-13 gr charge of Unique and a load using IMR 4198 which I have on hand. Maybe I will get back to the range with it by Monday (raining today).

Malcolm

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