45 ACP Leading (Pictures)

[panzerr]

Well, I tried the Lee Liquid Alox. All it did was foul up my pistols and make reloading a bit dirtier. It had no noticeable effect on leading. I won't be using that again.

I've settled with the fact that I will have to deal with leading for now.

[sheepdog]

Leading is 9/10ths bullet to bore fitting (ie sizing). Think thats where you need to start.

[Frank]

Get a bore and groove measurement for that model. Maybe someone already knows. What type and weight of bullet gives best accuracy? Then buy a box of those bullets, and/or get a mold of that type that has the same size, or .001" over your groove diameter. You can also just shoot a slug without powder aim at the dirt, then tap it out and measure. Maybe you can use your Billy slug for that.

[frank_1947]

shooting lead and leading is something that is different solution for everyone and sometime some or common , it can be powder for some lead mix it can be speed to slow to fast, finding the right combination can be a problem if you dont cast, I have never seen a hard cast bullet cause a problem since some leading is caused by the back of bullet melting more or less fro to much powder to hot in general speed etc . I have casted my own 45s and use my own mix of lube with WST powder that I use on all cast 9mm 40sw and 45 I have never used red dot and I never heard of a Billy bullet but the easiest way to try to find prblem is start with the powder load if it is hot slow it down 5% at a time if slow speed it up a little at a time, I had the same problem years ago with my 40SW that was when a friend told me try WST never had that problem again and mine looked same as yours I was useing a lee 6 cav 155gr mould I couldnt believe that that could happen so simple I had been talking to lee about my problem for a wk or so , called hime back told him about powder change and the result, he said you just found the right combination your lucky to have found it so fast I based my alloy on lyman #2
so you need to find what works if you had not bought so many od them bullets you would have more options trying others if you can spend the money try others here i one my friends shoot in there 45s http://www.snscasting.com/

[MtGun44]

I would suggest adding a real lube to the groove and making sure the boolit is at least
.001" larger than the groove diam bare minimum. The taper crimp looks fine to me.

Bill

[44man]

shooting lead and leading is something that is different solution for everyone and sometime some or common , it can be powder for some lead mix it can be speed to slow to fast, finding the right combination can be a problem if you dont cast, I have never seen a hard cast bullet cause a problem since some leading is caused by the back of bullet melting more or less fro to much powder to hot in general speed etc . I have casted my own 45s and use my own mix of lube with WST powder that I use on all cast 9mm 40sw and 45 I have never used red dot and I never heard of a Billy bullet but the easiest way to try to find prblem is start with the powder load if it is hot slow it down 5% at a time if slow speed it up a little at a time, I had the same problem years ago with my 40SW that was when a friend told me try WST never had that problem again and mine looked same as yours I was useing a lee 6 cav 155gr mould I couldnt believe that that could happen so simple I had been talking to lee about my problem for a wk or so , called hime back told him about powder change and the result, he said you just found the right combination your lucky to have found it so fast I based my alloy on lyman #2
so you need to find what works if you had not bought so many od them bullets you would have more options trying others if you can spend the money try others here i one my friends shoot in there 45s http://www.snscasting.com/

Boolit bases do not melt!

[JMax]

I agree with sargnev as I shoot Bear Creek and do not clean between matches w/no leading including my Glock 17 and 22 (Mein Gott you cannot shoot lead in Glocks) The key is case belling and proper crimp. I also find the Bear Creeks are a bit softer than Billy Bullets and I believe the base unerates better providing a better seal. Also powder choice is key with all cast bullets. Currently I shoot 30k+ Bear Creeks a year and have not had to clean the barrels of my 627 revolvers since the Steel Challenge and IRC of this year. I also shoot the bullets in my 45ACP 1911 and 625 plus 44's in my M21 and 29.

[HangFireW8]

I've settled with the fact that I will have to deal with leading for now.

Don't give up!

First of all, find out what you're dealing with. Have you tried slugging your barrel with a lead boolit? Do you have access to a micrometer or 1/1000" dial caliper?

-HF

[Bass Ackward]

Man, you have quite a bit of information to digest. But .... not enough.

Lyman has the accuracy load for a 200 grainer at 3.5 grains of BE. I used to use 3.3.

Try slowing down and see what happens. But you are going to have to get ALL of that leading out first or it will keep happening no mater what you do.

[Throwback]

I agree with the consensus view that moly is bad.

No one has mentioned bevel base. Are these bullets bevel based? .45 ACP bullets that are bevel based will often lead regardless of most lube choices. This will be even worse with higher velocities or if the bullet is undersized. Your leading basically matches my experience with bevel based bullets I have tried before I started casting.

All of my loading for the .45s currently consists of flat based bullets sized .452 cast of alloy approximating #2. Most of my loads run about 800 fps which is all I need. I run a little faster in the .45 Colt.

I will say that I have been able to get acceptable performance with 200 grain BB LSWC and 230 grain BBLRN bullets with a decent lube and keeping velocities low at 800 fps or lower but there is always some leading.

[Legion489]

OK, everyone covered slugging the bore and using slightly larger bullets.

Now try softer bullets. Yes, really.

And no moly. No idea if moly helps or hurts leading, but you need to get it ALL out (a giant pain!) and start clean.

Did I miss if this load does this in all barrels or just this one?

Interesting you had problems with Lee Liq. Alox. I never had a problem with it and that would be the first time I was lucky with anything Lee. Put bullets in plastic baggie, pour in tiny amount of LLA, rub around, dump on wax paper and let dry over night. Try putting "real" lub in grooves. If that helps but doesn't solve problem try putting LLA over it and see what happens.

My favorite load is 5.5 gr Win 231 with 200 LSWC.

If all of the above (everyone's ideas) doesn't work, you might need to use plated bullets or get a new barrel.

[pmer]

Try the OAL test... Take out the barrel and drop a loaded round in the chamber. If the rim sticks out past the hood you're pushing the shoulder of the boolit too far into the rifling/throat area when the action locks up. It's like shearing off a piece of lead and leaving it in the throat area.

[Motor]

I use Lee A-Lox in at least 10 different calibers from .30 cal rifle up to .500 S&W pistol and will continue to do so until at least I run out then I'll probably switch to one of the sponsored tumble lubes on here.

I'm a machinist with 28 years experience and have a tool and die making degree. YES there is an amount of break in for new barrels. If a barrel is hand lapped of course it's very minimal.

I have personally experienced leading due to too light loads with too hard boolits.

I agree the OP's crimp looked excessive. I would only crimp enough to remove the mouth flair. No more.

Most cast loads produce some leading. If the leading does not accumulate and accuracy stays consistent (consistently good that is) then it's not a problem.

Motor

[Char-Gar]

I tried some moly coated bullets ten or twelve years ago and will never do that again.

Moral to this story: Never buy 5,000 of anything until you know you really want 5,000 of them.

[dubber123]

You fellows realize this is a 5 year old thread?

[9.3X62AL]

Yes--and if I had 5,000 of these intractable undersized SOB's, they would have been MELTED 5 years ago, too. Dunno what effect the "moly" would have on the alloy composition, but I can't help thinking that the metal would run better properly sized and lubed. Failing that, running all of those bullets into a .452 size die in a 4500 or LAM II and filling that groove with 50/50 wouldn't do any harm, and might improve things.

[FergusonTO35]

If I was the OP the first thing I would do is back off the charge or try a slower powder. Red Dot is awfully fast for that application with boolits of unknown quality, and factory applied surface lubes are often marginal to begin with. Case in point: Speer Idaho Territory boolits. These soft swaged boolits have a very thin shellac like coating and are intended for light cowboy action type loads. I used to shoot alot of them before I started casting because they were cheap at my local shop. I thought that getting curly Q's of lead when you cleaned was just part of the game. Then the shop started carrying cast boolits with real lube and I discovered the joys of no leading and easy cleanup.

[DrCaveman]

Panzerr hasnt posted for two years on the forum, not likely he is reading these new posts.

Anyone new with some 45 acp leading problems, post up some pics and people will help

Otherwise this thread is dead.

My 2cents: cast your own at 453", size down appropriately for your barrel, taper crimp to 470", dont worry about hardness or charge (as long as it is generally a book load) and enjoy excellent 25 yd groups, far better than 9mm or 38 spl will deliver. With my guns, and me shooting them.

[GhostHawk]

Agree with Caveman, my SA 1911 will out shoot every other handgun in the house. And thanks to Ben's Liquid Lube it does it without leading or problems of any kind. Only thing I've found is that if I sent the boolit a touch deeper I have fewer failures to load, or rounds that hang up short of battery.

[Shooter6br]

Moly prevented (REDUCED) barrel wear in my 6BR and 6PPC. Not good for lead bullets