7mm & cast bullets

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I was wondering if any of the group has done much w/ the 7mm/06 or if anyone has done much w/ the 7mm mag.

[Buckshot]

...........The 280 Rem, 7mm Express or 7mm-06 is one fine cartridge. I think it's supposed to be in the top 5 cartridges that custom rifles and re-barrel jobs is done in.

But to the point, I have no experience in loading cast in either 7mm you asked about . I will hazard a guess that in the 280 Rem you could use a mid-range type load intended for the 7x57 as a start point. Due to the case volumn and bullet diameter ie: expansion ratio, even very slow powders like surp WC872 and 860 can generate substantial velocities.

A casefull of WC872 in the 7x57 will propel the RCBS 7mm-168 to 2400+ fps in both my M98/08 Brazilian and M97 Rem RB with 29" bbls. Drop the charge to 42.0grs and you get 1750 fps.

Ditto in the 6.5x55 Swede. A casefull of WC872 will send the 140gr Hornady SP out of a 24" bbl at 2700 fps. Under a 150gr cast slug 32-34grs is 1550 to 1600 fps.

Both the previously mentioned cartridges have done well with charges of 10-12grs of Unique also. Due to the even larger capacity of the parent 30-06 case I'd think that I might start out with the same fast powder charges and work up seeing what happens.

If you were to use a mid to slow type powder I'd suggest a solid filler from the start, to make them think they were in a full case deal, but I don't know your feelings on the use of fillers. Hopefully someone who really has reloaded cast in either round will supply some useable data.

.................Buckshot

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I HAVE BEEN USEING THE 168GR. GC Lyman bullet for some 30yrs. now . All my experementing has been w/ fast powders & w/out fillers untill this year.
The 7mm/06 was made for me by the late great P.O.Ackly. I told him at the time that I wanted to be able to shoot both cast & jacked bullets.

[Paul B]

C.E. "Ed" Harris once did an article on cast bullets in military rifles that had some interesting data.he had what he called "The Load" for milsurp rifles which was 16.0 gr. of Alliant #2400 for about 1500 FPS. I've used that load in both the .308 Win. and 30-06 with good results. Another, that I like a little better is from 25.0 to .27.0 gr. of either IMR or H-4895. He stated that he used no fillers in either of the loads. I think either of the above mentioned loads would be a pretty fair starting point. For example, the 25.0 gr. 4895 load gave 1.5 MOA groups at 200 yards and 2.5 MOA at 300 yards. The 17.0 gr. #2400 shot well enough to knock down the javalina (pig) silhouettes at 300 meters. The bullet would hit and the pig would slowly and reluctantly fall over.
The RCBS 154 gr, SIL bullet should be a good one, but i think I'd use the 186 gr. SIL for better long range results.
I just started reloading for a .280 Rem. and want to develop a good hunting load with a condom bullet first. I have the two RCBS molds mentioned, but haven't worked up any loads for them yet. However, the loads I mentioned will be my starting points.
Paul B.

[Ben]

Boom Boom :

I recently built a nice 98' Mauser , 280 Rem. with the intentions of shooting mostly cast bullets in the rifle. It turned out to be a very beautiful rifle. ( At least in my opinion ) I'll include some photos below of the rifle and groups that I'm firing with cast bullets, in the rifle.

I did all the glass bedding and work on the wood and stock finishing. My gunsmith in Colorado did the metal work.

The 280 will shoot cast bullets just as good as an 06 when everything is right.








This target below will tell you something about how a 280 Rem. shoots cast bullets........The aiming square is 1" on the outside edges :





Thanks,

Ben

(Got your pictures fixed, except the last. Can only do 4 photos)..........Buckshot)

Buckshot: Thanks a bunch for your help on the photos.......Best to you ...Ben

[fish_bait]

I have 2 7mm's that I have shot lead bullets through for what seems forever. One is a 7mm-06 Express by Charles Durham. It is basically the same as the Ackley Imp. but with only .010 body taper and a little shorter neck. I have used two bullets in it for over 40 years and both perform very well.

One is the Lyman # 287346 and the other is the Lyman #287377. The 287346 will shoot very nice groups with anything from 10 gr. of SR 4756+ dacron filler to 30 gr. of IMR 4895. Its favorite "food" is 19 gr. of IMR4227. I use this bullet for fire forming with 28 gr. of IMR4227. This was the load given my Dad by Durham for fireforming back in 1952 when he built the gun for my father and it works great.

The Lyman 287377 is a spitzer and is not supposed to shoot well, wrong! I get very nice groups with it also in both the 7mm-06 and a Ruger 77 in 7 x 57. It really likes about 1500 to 1800 fps in both rifles. It seems to like 17.5 gr. of IMR 4227 best in the 7 x 57 and 18.5gr. in the 7mm-06. Accurate 5744 shoots well too, but doesn't meter well because of its grain size.

The third bullet I use is from a mold my son made me that is very similiar to a Lyman 31141 for the 30-30 only 7mm. It is a flat nose single grease groove design with a gas check. It weighs 125 gr. in the alloy I use and is very accurate in both of the above guns and in a 7-30 Waters Win 94AE carbine.

The alloy I use is a concoction myself and two other guys at the National Bureau of Standards came up with for a project and thought it would also be good for bullets. It has a Brinnell of 25 but is not brittle like linotype. Slabs 1/8" in thickness can be bent in a complete "U" shape without breaking. It has a very fine grain structure unlike linotype's course grain structure. Using Lyman MolyLube, I have never had any leading with this alloy. If anyone wants the brew I will be happy to post it here. It is really easy to do at home. It doesn't have anything exotic in it.

[Buckshot]

............Ben, a very beautiful rifle! You gonna have it at Winnemucca?

............Fish Bait, I'm sure many would be interested in your alloy. I'd suggest you start a new thread for it on cast bullets, rather then tag it on here.

Not about the 280, but Deputy Al was over the other day and I showed him the groups shot with my M98/08 Brazilian and Rem 1897 RB, both in 7x57. They has full caseloads of 60.0 grs of surp WC872 and the RCBS 7mm-168 (172 actual) cast boolit.

The 5 shot groups were just over and just under 1" at 50 yards, issue iron sights. The velocity was 2540 fps.

.................Buckshot

[Bret4207]

Ben- Nice job. Having something to use that you put together yourself is always rewarding and you look to have done a fine job.

Fish Bait- Welcome! I'd be interested in hearing about your alloy. I take it you work at the Bureau of Standards?

[Ben]

Tpr Bret:

Thanks for your nice comments. I put an awful lot of time into the rifle, but I'm retired and have time to allocate to a project like this now.

I made myself a pledge that I wasn't going to take any short cuts and I was going to " DO IT RIGHT ".

I don't regret the project, It turned out very well ! !
__________________________________________________ ____________

Buckshot:

I'm located in AL, so I guess not.......Thanks for " fixing my photos " ...I'm still a little new to posting pics, etc....I'm still learning...Thanks also for your nice comments regarding my custom rifle that I've just completed . I always enjoy reading your comments on this forum. Keep up the good work.

[felix]

Ben, I don't think I'd shoot that gun! That thing is a piece of art and belongs in a frame. ... felix

[Ben]

Thanks Felix :

Yes...I put some sweat and TIME into that one.

Thanks for those nice comments,'

Best,

Ben

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
1st. that's a nice looking rifle. 2nd that's a great group, better than I've done w/ ether of my 7mm's W/ cast bullets.
The 7mm/06 was made on a Mauser MARK X action. I stocked it, glass bedded it , hollowed out the stock, bolt handle, & skeletonized the magazine.
I've got pot-gut squirrel hunting accuracy w/ the 168g. gc. Lyman #287308.
Loads were green dot 14g.,Unique 13.5g., 700X 13.5g., all w/ air cooled ww.
The best groups w/ cast bullets avg. about 2'' at 100yds. off of sand bags.
I've always felt the gun was capable of better! So now am trying out 700X w/ Dacron filler, & IMR4198 w/ Dacron filler & H20 quenched ww. bullets.
The 7mm/06 will will shoot 3/4" groups w/ 145 g. spbt Speers & 55g IMR 4350. BE AWARE THIS LOAD IS PROBABLY TOO HOT FOR MANY RIFLES. I make my 12"X18" steel plate ring about 80% of the time w/ that load at 600yds.

[fish_bait]

I will post the alloy I use in a new thread as per Buckshots advice.

[JDL]

Ben,
A fine looking rifle, plus it shoots!!! I would have responded sooner but, my drooling shorted out the keyboard .-JDL

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
It's been raining every week here in UT. since I started this thread, so I knew the range up Provo canyon would be a mud pit. So I haven't been out to shoot my new test loads. had to content myself w/ loading 300 win mags for my son, & 220 swift for me.
Also haven't been up to the long range to try out the new metal plate silhouettes in my attempt to emulate Elmer Kieth w/ my .44.
This is frustrating, I'm beginning to have withdrawal symptoms.

[BOOM BOOM]

Ben, I don't think I'd shoot that gun! That thing is a piece of art and belongs in a frame. ... felix

HI,
I think you must be a collector like my brother. He has over a dozen guns he has never shot. To me to have a gun and not shoot it is almost a sin.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
From the posts it would appear no one else is tinkering w/ the 7mm mag.?
I admit I like my 7mm/06 better, but I can't neglect the mag. & shoot it some every year. Perhaps you all just feel it is better suited to jacked bullets?

[9.3X62AL]

I'm going to try to tame the 7mm RemMag a bit--7 x 57 ballistics with 140-150 grain jacketed bullets, and maybe some attempts with cast. A buddy of mine from work got a killer deal on a Ruger 77R/old series in this caliber, and it showed promise with factory loads. Loads of factory intensity aren't needed for the scrawny little blacktails and sub-compact muleys in southern CA, so some moderate loads will get tried.

[BOOM BOOM]

I'm going to try to tame the 7mm Rem Mag a bit--7 x 57 ballistics with 140-150 grain jacketed bullets, and maybe some attempts with cast. A buddy of mine from work got a killer deal on a Ruger 77R/old series in this caliber, and it showed promise with factory loads. Loads of factory intensity aren't needed for the scrawny little blacktails and sub-compact muleys in southern CA, so some moderate loads will get tried.

HI'
I had a bad experience W/ a 25/06 & minimum book suggested loads of IMR 4350 & IMR 4320. The case head let go. I believe I was unlucky enough to experience what is referred to as a S.E.E. 2 times.. The 2nd time it dismantlement the gun. THIS WAS W/ THE LIGHTEST LYMAN BOOK SUGGESTED LOAD.
The irony of this is the NRA published a warning about other people experiencing the exact some thing W/ the 30/06 & the same powders about 2 mo. after my experience. I had not contacted them about my disaster. I almost lost my right eye twice & of course I did loose a neat P.O. ACLEY 25/06.

[9.3X62AL]

I am using 56.0 grains of IMR 4350 behind the Sierra 150 BTSP. This provides about 90% case fill. If there's another powder that would provide the same service--lowered velocities and good case fill--I'm not adverse to pulling bullets.