Lyman sabot slug vs. Lyman F oster slug accuracy?

[littlejack]

Has anyone done any accuracy testing in a 12 guage smooth bore between a Lyman sabot slug and a Lyman Foster slug?
If so, what were your results?
Thanks
Jack

[Uncle R.]

Lyman Foster slug from my blocks was WAY undersize. It would literally FALL through the bore and out the modified choke tube of my Win-choke barrel. Accuracy was very poor in rifled OR smoothbore barrels - like Minute of 5 gallon Bucket @ 75 yards. Lyman sabot slugs from my friend's mould ran much better - like Minute of Paper plate at 75 yards. We only tried a few different loads with those - there's probably some room for improvement. Still not as good as Winchester factory foster loads will shoot for me in smooth bore OR rifled barrel. Wanting to shoot the BCBC at Second Chance, my friend and I worked up a load many years ago with a .690 round ball in the shot cup of an RXP wad that does much better in my rifled Hastings barrel than either of the Lyman slugs. Makes durn near raggedy holes at 50 yards - opens to maybe 5" or so at 75 and corkscrews out to paper plate groups or worse at 100. On 75 yard bowling pins it was pretty reliable - would hit probably 9 for 10.
If the two Lymans are your options, I'd go for the sabot slug. I have to admit I haven't got it all figured out yet - I would love to come up with a mild-kicking 2-3 MOA 100 yard load for that Hastings barrel.
Uncle R.

[diehard]

I get really good groups out to 70 yards or so with the Lyman Sabot through a smoothbore. 3-5" is the norm, but considering each hole in the target is almost 3/4" that's a pretty tight group. With a rifled choke the groups tighten up considerably at short ranges, but I have only done better than 7" at 100 yards a few times. Awhile back I posted a 4 5/8" 100 yd group, but so far that is the best I've done using open sights.

[turbo1889]

Comparing accuracy between the two slugs molds you have mentioned as they come from the factory is like putting a "Pre-Jesus" George Foreman in the ring with a modern day stupid white high school gang-banger punk who talks **** about people with other skin colors and who thinks he is tough. "Pre-Jesus" George Foreman wins the fight in question with a nock out in the first round.

You need to have the Lyman foster mold spun out to full bore size on a lathe before it can even hope to have a fighting chance against the Lyman 525 overgrown air gun pellet wad-slug, and even then it's and underdog in the competition. The nose shape needs fixed and the skirt is too thin as well. Heck by the time your done with all that modification to the mold your just better off if you had a custom one cut right from the beginning.

[littlejack]

Thanks fellas for the information. At least, when I decide to buy a mould, it will be the Lyman sabot mould.
I tried some more round ball loads this last weekend. So far the groups stink. I will try some more later this week.
Jack

[SuperBlazingSabots]

If I were you I would first put the round ball or slug in a wad with different thickness of petals and try pushing it through your barrel with a cleaning rod or wooden dowel and find the right combo that slides through with a little push. Now this combo will work better in your gun when loaded properly for accuracy. Going out and shooting different slugs without doing your home work makes no sence and just a waste of money.
Here's the secret: Accuracy from a shotgun slug is a function of two things:
1. A good gas seal.
2. Centering the slug or round ball in the bore.
Achieve those two and you can shoot as well as many.......
Hope it helps
Ajay
www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com

[Lngntooth]

I'm no expert at slug loads, but following the instructions in the lastest Lyman shotgun loading manual produced great results. I test fired the first 5 through my standard Ithaca Deer Slayer 26" smooth-bore barrel at 25 yds and made a 2" cloverleaf. The next three went through a heavy-barreled, rifled, H&R single shot. They went less than 3" at 80yds. The first 25 rounds, minus the ones we used for target practice have taken 5 deer, all one shot kills. Longest shot was 70yds. The lead I used was extremely soft, recycled lead plumbing (pipe) that was removed from a 100 year-old house. I used cheap Winchester Comp. Formed once-fired empties, Win 209 primers, 42 gr. Bluedot, Win. WAA12R (red) wads and a fold crimp.

[longbow]

I am assuming that your results are with the Lyman sabot slug not with the Foster?

My Lyman Foster slug mould produces way undersize slugs just as Uncle R. says. Mine cast at 0.705" so too big for shotcup and too small for the bore.

My guess is that Lyman chose the as cast diameter to suit the rifling swages they used to sell which probably bumped outside diameter up by 0.020" or so making the finished slug closer to bore diameter.

I am told that with the proper wad column and load the Foster will slug up to bore diameter and accuracy can be very good but I have not experienced that even using Lyman load data right from the manual and later replacing wad column with hard card wads. What I did find is that recovered slugs from deep soft snow showed uneven noses and skirts from slugging up unevenly.

I do not recommend the Lyman Foster slug at all. I have not tried the sabot slug yet so cannot comment but many people say they do well in both smoothbore and rifled guns.

YMMV

Longbow

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Lyman Sabot Shocker 12 gauge shot under 3" at 100yds. I shot them in my Savage 210 bolt shotgun with rifled barrel with a 4X scope.

Devastating on white tails out to 150yds. I used trap cups, and loaded them a bit over 1700fps.

[FLHTC]

I'm no expert at slug loads, but following the instructions in the lastest Lyman shotgun loading manual produced great results. I test fired the first 5 through my standard Ithaca Deer Slayer 26" smooth-bore barrel at 25 yds and made a 2" cloverleaf. The next three went through a heavy-barreled, rifled, H&R single shot. They went less than 3" at 80yds. The first 25 rounds, minus the ones we used for target practice have taken 5 deer, all one shot kills. Longest shot was 70yds. The lead I used was extremely soft, recycled lead plumbing (pipe) that was removed from a 100 year-old house. I used cheap Winchester Comp. Formed once-fired empties, Win 209 primers, 42 gr. Bluedot, Win. WAA12R (red) wads and a fold crimp.

These have been discontinued for quite some time now

[mojomandan]

If I were you I would first put the round ball or slug in a wad with different thickness of petals and try pushing it through your barrel with a cleaning rod or wooden dowel and find the right combo that slides through with a little push. Now this combo will work better in your gun when loaded properly for accuracy. Going out and shooting different slugs without doing your home work makes no sence and just a waste of money.
Here's the secret: Accuracy from a shotgun slug is a function of two things:
1. A good gas seal.
2. Centering the slug or round ball in the bore.
Achieve those two and you can shoot as well as many.......
Hope it helps
Ajay
www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com

Ajay,

I understand your points about needing a good seal and centering the slug in the bore. I agree. Are you also suggesting one circumvent the published loads (ie, in Lyman shotshell book, or on powder manufacturer websites) if they don't fit well, for the sake of better slug/wad fitment in the bore?

What if the better fitting slug/wad combo has no pressure test data?

[mojomandan]

This thread got very quiet after I posted. Did I strike a nerve? I apologize if I did, as that was not my intention.

Anyway, my findings with the Lyman Foster slug corroborate what everyone else has said. Though, given that the slug is undersized for 12 gauge barrels, and not as "nose-heavy" as the Lee slug, I made some modifications to the mold, and to the cast slug after it cools.

First, I shortened the core pin thing (the thing you insert prior to pouring lead into the mold) to create a larger deposit of lead up front. With my alloy, the original slug went from an average of 486 grains to 521 grains with the modification. I don't have the ability or equipment to widen the slug, but I do take cast slugs and lightly tap a 5/8" marble into the slug cavity to widen the rear end, then I push the slug through the barrel to swage it down a bit to fit. That way, it will fit inside a 12 gauge shell too.

I have yet to shoot the above slugs, but will report back when I do. I don't have much hope, and this is my last attempt with this slug.

[phaessler]

Maybe mojomandan, Ajay was booted a while back.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I recently started following this thread in hopes of gleaning more info on slug accuracy.

[longbow]

Slug accuracy seems to be an elusive thing.... at least in smoothbores.

Rifled guns, well that is a different animal.

I read all sorts of claims to accuracy in smoothbores but I see few posted targets and my personal results range from okay to dismal after about 50 yards.

My good round ball loads in smoothbore run from about 3" to 4" groups at 50 yards but open up rapidly after 50 yards... generally speaking. I have gotten some pretty impressive 100 yard groups as well but not "on demand". Usually there are fliers and rather random at that.

I have had a few home cast slugs do as well but generally round ball accuracy to 50 yards is better than slug loads.

BPI AQ slugs, Gualandi DGS slugs and some factory Fosters have given spectacular accuracy but home cast and loaded slugs haven fallen short in general.

My take is that a slug/wad combination has to be a good fit to bore and "solid" to provide reasonable accuracy. Lyman Foster slugs do not fall into this category, they are very much undersize. At least in my experience.

SluggerDoug posted a good write up on "rifling" slugs up to bore diameter and resultant accuracy several years ago. My view is that slugs should be bore size and on a hard card wad column to provide reasonable accuracy.

YMMV

Longbow

[mojomandan]

Slug accuracy seems to be an elusive thing.... at least in smoothbores.

I read all sorts of claims to accuracy in smoothbores but I see few posted targets ....

Longbow, I call the above phenomenon "internet muscle". For shooters, "internet muscle" enables them to claim awesome accuracy, without having to show proof. For weightlifters, "internet muscle" augments bench press abilities and most people, not surprisingly, have maximum bench presses exceeding 450 pounds.

I have had a few home cast slugs do as well but generally round ball accuracy to 50 yards is better than slug loads.

I gotta get me a .678 round ball mold!

BPI AQ slugs, Gualandi DGS slugs and some factory Fosters have given spectacular accuracy but home cast and loaded slugs haven fallen short in general.

I wonder why Lee, Lyman, etc do not make full bore slugs. Negative pressure from Federal, Winchester, etc? I am aware of custom companies like Accurate, I still prefer the less expensive mass produced version.

My take is that a slug/wad combination has to be a good fit to bore and "solid" to provide reasonable accuracy. Lyman Foster slugs do not fall into this category, they are very much undersize. At least in my experience.

SluggerDoug posted a good write up on "rifling" slugs up to bore diameter and resultant accuracy several years ago. My view is that slugs should be bore size and on a hard card wad column to provide reasonable accuracy.

I agree. Maybe I am forced to go with a manufacturer like Accurate after all.

YMMV

Longbow

My responses are in RED.

[longbow]

Let me make a slight correction to one of my comments "My view is that slugs should be bore size..." I meant that slugs should be a snug fit to bore whether bore size slug or slug/ball in shotcup.

If I was shooting a rifled gun I would most likely be shooting groove diameter solid slugs or round balls. In smoothbore I find it easier to load round balls and slugs into shotcups and generally I have had better accuracy using this method as well. The fit of slug/ball and shotcup combination should be a slip fit to the bore. At least that is what has worked best for me.

0.662" round balls "patched" into shotcups and 0.678" round balls in Winchester shotcups have been shooting very well for me to at least 50 yards producing groups of 3" to 4". Don't know if I have a target to post or not. I would have to dig through the pile in my basement. So take that for what it is worth.

Most home cast slugs have not done well for me. My Lee Drive Key slug came in at about 6" groups at 50 yards but I have not shot many and that was with the first and only loads I produced. It shows promise.

My Lyman Foster slugs give laughably bad groups with the best being in the 8" to 10 " range at 50 yards. However, I have shot Remington, Winchester and Federal factory Fosters out of my Browning BPS slug barrel and if I didn't know better I would have thought it was rifled. Accuracy was extremely good. I just can't seem to reproduce that with home cast slugs reliably.

Still working on it but I have not managed to get any slug shooting done since last spring. Got to get back to it.

Longbow

[6pt-sika]

I borrowed the Lyman 12 sabot mold from a friend back during the summer . Cast a couple hundred of them for use in variouse side by sides . Granted the accuracy of the right and left barrel together was not so hot it did meet my parameters for 25 yards . When I shot three shot groups from say the right barrel or three shots from the left barrel generally my deer parameters that way were ok out to 50 yards . I base this on the data I got from 6 different 12 gauge SxS's with all chokes from light IC to full . I will say these sabot slugs seemed to work a touch better when I used a hot glue gun and filled in the base . Otherwise I think the Claybuster wad was going up inside the base cavity and messing with accuracy a touch .

Now let me go further to say in my bolt action rifled shotguns I do not realistically think I can do any better then the Remington AccuBond sabot slugs 2 3/4" for both the 12 and 20 . Hence that's what I'm shooting in my Savage 210F 12 gauge slugger and my Savage 220 20 gauge slugger . With the Remington slugs these two guns are easily 1.5 MOA guns .

[6pt-sika]

My Lyman Foster slugs give laughably bad groups with the best being in the 8" to 10 " range at 50 yards.

I recently read an article in the "Double Gun Journal" about a fellow with a 12 gauge fully rifled Purdey or H&H gun . He took a Lyman Foster slug mold cut three bands in the mold to bring the size out to fit his gun and made a new plug so it wan't a hollow base any longer and he got what I would call acceptable accuracy out to 50 or 75 yards . However he did say recoil with this setup was noticeable !