Need your input...lube/sizer

[outdoorfan]

Between the Star and the Saeco (mainly the Saeco). I know the Star is tops and that it'll lube/size 1000 boolits in an hour or two. What is a realistic production rate for the Saeco? Also, is the Saeco a nose-first or base-first design?

One more: Does the Star tend to leak lube when running boolits through that aren't at least .001 over the diameter being sized to?

[moses]

What's wrong with a RCBS lube/sizer?
I just got one and by using my left hand to place the bullet while my right hand takes the lubed bullet out of the sizer and places it in the box I can go almost as fast as when using my friends Star sizer.
RCBS is much cheaper as is all the sizer dies and top punches.
If money is no object though, I'd go with the Star.

I haven't heard a lot of praise for a Saeco.

[Gunslinger]

I'm with Moses on this one....

I have an RCBS and it works really well. It takes me about 5 minutes to size 50 boolits. So an hour of sizing amounts to a lot of shooting.

[fredj338]

What's wrong with a RCBS lube/sizer?
I just got one and by using my left hand to place the bullet while my right hand takes the lubed bullet out of the sizer and places it in the box I can go almost as fast as when using my friends Star sizer.
RCBS is much cheaper as is all the sizer dies and top punches.
If money is no object though, I'd go with the Star.

I haven't heard a lot of praise for a Saeco.

The fact you have to remove the bullet makes the Lyman or RCBS at least twice as slow. The Star/Magma pushes the bullet straight thru. so one hand feeds, the other works the handle, 1000/hr is easy. The Saeco is much the same style, maybe slightly better executed because of the two ram rods instead of the others single. The best luber/sizer on the market is hands down the Star/Magma. It's only slight down fall is the seating of GC. It can be done, but not as securely/neatly as the others IMO.

[jameslovesjammie]

I would vote for the Star. Forget about how much faster it sizes, although that is a plus. More importantly is that it sizes nose first. This means that the nose and point of the bullet are unaffected by the sizing operation. You also don't need a different top punch for each bullet. If you get your sizing dies from Lathesmith and your lube from LAR45, your caliber conversions won't cost you any more than a typical Lyman/RCBS.

[Gunslinger]

This means that the nose and point of the bullet are unaffected by the sizing operation.

And this is important because.......??? It's the base of the bullet that determines accuracy or the lack thereof.... not the point! And besides, if the correct top punch is used the nose doesn't reveal if a bullet has been sized or not! One could also argue that because the Star is a push-though the bullets get dented?! I personally don't think a small dent here or there is going to make much of a difference.

I once sized 300 bullets and threw them in a plastic container. The bullets were totally greasy and so were the cartridges. I recon this could have something to do with the temperature of the lube... I can imagine the same thing would happen with a Star...

I now place sized bullets in those 9mm plastic squares you get from factory ammo. No grease and easy to store....

[Echo]

I guess a lot depends on what you will be lube/sizing. If mostly rifle boolits, then an RCBS is my recommendation. Makes seating GC's easy, and really can move pretty fast. Yes, you should use the right nose-punch. SO?
On the other hand, if mostly pistol boolits, then the Star is the way to go. And I DO NOT size mine nose-first, although it is recommended. Nose first leaves fins on the base, for me anyway. Again, one needs the correct nose punch.
I have never used a SAECO, but understand they are good rigs. I have two RCBS and one Star, and am a happy man.

[softpoint]

I cast and load for a number of different calibers, some with gaschecks, some without, and I' ve never felt like the RCBS wasn't good enough. Ihave an older Lyman that works OK too, but it leaks some out the base.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

+1 on the base of the boolit affecting accuracy. I like my.......Lyman........

[Cherokee]

Echo - I'm glad to see someone else has that problem with some bullets. The fins don't hurt for my SASS ammo but I would think they would impact accuracy shooting longer range. It is anoying and why I use my 45/450/4500 Lymans for some of my bullets. But, the star is fast when you have alot of bullets to do.

[mrbill2]

I'm going to have to put a plug in for the Saeco. I have 1 for 35+ years and never had a problem. I just bought another one used for lube that needs heat. Both work great and I like the gas check seater that is built in the Saeco. This is the only sizer I have ever used so can't say anything about others. Just my .02
Mr. Bill2

[moses]

I also thought the RCBS would be at least twice as slow, However not the case.
As I would be doing nothing with might right hand while my left was putting a boolit in the Star, with the RCBS I take the bullet away with my right hand while my left is putting the bullet in the sizer. I'd say the Star is 25% faster than the RCBS if using my method.

[HeavyMetal]

I've used Stars, Lymans and Saeco's. never had an RCBS but it's the same basic deal as the Lyman.

This question also seems to get asked a lot, I thought we had a video in the stickies section showing how well a Star worked?

Anyway on with my answer: Buy the Star!

The Seaco is an excellent choice and, if you can get one for the right price, buy it! Other wise the Star is really top of the line.

Having said all that how much sizing are you going to do? If your competing in some form of pistol or rifle match / league the Star is the way to go ,If your just gonna size 40 or 50 every few months buy the sizer that fits your budget!

By the way nose sizing produces a measurablely more accurate boolit than base sizeing useing a nose punch.

For the record have two Stars and an old Lyman #1 for "specialty" boolits!

[Leftoverdj]

The one hand putting on while the other is taking off sounds wonderful if you happen to have a third hand to work the lever.

Not having such a hand, I run the bullets for the bulk of my shooting through Lee pushthoughs. My guess is that the time spent in tumble lubing is no greater than the time I would have spent loading a lube reservoir and applying pressure. I also benefit from spending little to no time adjusting dies.

There are, of course, times I do not want to use TL, but that's mostly for GC rifle bullets. I shoot far fewer of those and speed is much less of a concern. I don't mind running those through a Lyman or my old Herter's since I am only doing a hundred or two at a time. I run WCs through the Lee dies by the thousand.

[finishman2000]

well i have the rcbs, lyman star and now the owner of a ballisti-cast (which i will be writing up a review in a week or so) and for speed the star is hard to beat when the magma feeder and air cylinder is used. For gas checks either one of the first two. for low production it really doesn't matter.
the star is a great machine but i find it kinda lightweight for the long haul. Yea i know you've had yours for 40 years and it till works but i still find it lacking in strenght. The ballisti-cast is in a different league but isn't perfect either but is the strongest of them all.

[outdoorfan]

Thanks for all your input. The reason I was leaning away from the Lyman/RCBS is because they take lube sticks (only?). I make my own lube, and I would like to have the ability to simply melt the stuff and pour it in a reservoir. The Saeco allows this, and I imagine the Star does as well.

I have been hand lubing, and the wasted time is killing me. I tried pan lubing, and I simply haven't found it to be any better when it comes to my pistol boolits (which I shoot the most of). I end up with plenty of lube in the crimp groove that I have to clean out, and then some of the lube grooves need relubing anyway. If I could get a RCBS/Saeco/Star to lube these suckers without having to wipe lube off the nose or out of the crimp groove, then I'll be time ahead.

Most of the stuff I shoot uses gas checks. My .30 cal boolits are the longest ones, being around 1.1 inches. I want the checks to go on straight, of course. The Lee push-thru's that I've been using so far produce quality boolits, but the time factor isn't worth it.

I don't need the Star, as I will probably only need to load a couple hundred rounds per week.

[RayinNH]

outdoorfan, don't lean away from the Lyman/RCBS sizers because of lube because you certainly can pour you own lube in them. Sticks are not needed...Ray

[GabbyM]

I use a Star on all my pistol bullets. However for long nosed rifle bullets or rifle bullets with a point that either deforms or dents the gas check under it. I use a Lyman or RCBS. The long bore ride nosed rifle bullets I can't get through a Star without leaving lube blobs on the nose. This is due to the amount of time the die lube holes are uncovered as the nose passes through. So instead of wiping off all the noses I just set up a Lyman which is better at gas checks anyway.

Never used a Saeco sizer but the ergonomics looks like it would work and reviews are good.
The Lyman / RCBS dies won't fit a Saeco so once you get started on one or the other you're fairly grandfathered in.

If you only do a few thousand bullets per year production speed isn't really a big deal. If all you do is pistol bullets the Star is the way to go and you'll never regret it. They just do a better job and you don't need a pint jar full of nose punches. If you like bevel based bullets then a Star can run them with no issue while the push pull sizers will fill the bevel with lube. But yes, to answer your question. If you run an undersized bullet into a Star die it will squirt lube out past the bullet. But then so will a push pull type sizer to a lesser extent. Since undersized bullets don't generally shoot to well it's kind of a moot issue anyway.

[geargnasher]

I use a buddy's Lyman 450 or tumble lube. This doesn't answer the question, but I wouldn't limit my choices to just a Saeco or Magma Star without taking in some input on other types. I use what I have access to/can afford, but when I buy my own I'll buy a Lyman or RCBS first, because it works well for my needs, then maybe get a Star if need the production.

Love the Lyman, but not the RCBS dies. Stick with Lyman's dies because they generally have more holes and have concave bottom punches which help keep lube off the bases.

Gear

[geargnasher]

outdoorfan, don't lean away from the Lyman/RCBS sizers because of lube because you certainly can pour you own lube in them. Sticks are not needed...Ray

+1 on that, I melt the sticks and pour them in (1.5 at a time) the Lyman, much better than pushing air bubbles through which is what happens when you just drop in the sticks, plus you don't have to do it as often.

Gear