"Alox Lube?"

[UweJ]

357 maximum , thanks for the advise but I have enough already. It´s just the bigotry that you can´t order LLA but you can order a sizing kit with LLA .
Uwe

[mooman76]

LLA works. The draw back is it is messy and get on your equipment and in your guns and needs to be cleaned out periodically. Not trying to put it down, I still use it but also use a Lyman lube sizer as it suits me. There are also ways around some of the excess mess. It's great for people starting out on a budget like I was.

[UweJ]

Mooman , I agree that LLA works on some boolits and I also use an old Lyman 450 which never let me down so far. LLA hasn´t been to messy for me yet so I can´t really complain. I dilute with mineral spirits.
I also make my own lube for nitro and never had any problems with leading or cleaning so far(lol) but my friends at the range which buy sure do. Tried to convince them of slugging the bore but most feel that a .45 is always .452 and a .357 is always .357. My scores at tournaments and other competitions should tell them otherwise but -Oh well- it´s their money.
Regards Uwe

[geargnasher]

Mooman , I agree that LLA works on some boolits and I also use an old Lyman 450 which never let me down so far. LLA hasn´t been to messy for me yet so I can´t really complain. I dilute with mineral spirits.
I also make my own lube for nitro and never had any problems with leading or cleaning so far(lol) but my friends at the range which buy sure do. Tried to convince them of slugging the bore but most feel that a .45 is always .452 and a .357 is always .357. My scores at tournaments and other competitions should tell them otherwise but -Oh well- it´s their money.
Regards Uwe

I concur on all counts.

I'll never undertand why anyone would call LLA "messy" and turn around and spend a session with a 450 wiping bases and getting lube all over their fingers and never think a thing of it. To me, LLA is the cleanest to handle of all lubes because you only have to touch it when it's DRY. And you don't have to set the boolits up on their bases after you pour them out on the waxed paper, just let them lie on their sides, it makes absolutely no difference to final performance.

Gear

[butchs37]

Hi new to forum and bullet casting and have a few questions. I use a lee .575-472M mold and LLA. Would LLA be enough lube or should I use barrel butter in groves or in the cavity in the bottom. Also would paper patching be a better alternative?

[canyon-ghost]

Just as a side note, Alox is a commercial lubricant designated as 2138F Alox. It's been around in the stick version for lubrisizers for a very long time. Seems it's a type of grease.

[wiljen]

Just as a side note, Alox is a commercial lubricant designated as 2138F Alox. It's been around in the stick version for lubrisizers for a very long time. Seems it's a type of grease.

Alox 2138F has been discontinued and was the alox originally used in 50/50 (NRA) lube with beeswax. It has been replaced with Alox 350.

LLA is a solvent cutback of Alox 606-55HF and isnt the same thing as the 2138F or 350 nor is it even close.

[HORNET]

butchs37, is that Lee .575-472M being used in a muzzleloader? If so, Alox (in general) and LLA are NOT recommended for use with black powder. It seems to form an extremely hard-to-remove deposit in the barrel. Stick with Bore Butter or make some Emmerts (see the lube recipes stickies). Also check out the muzzleloaders forum. Welcome to the fun.

[fowl_language]

I thought i'd put in a few cents...ended up being a couple dollars...sorry

I've been reloading now for about 6 months which makes me no expert by any means but, when I started reloading...I STARTED RELOADING.. lol. I bought everything I could find (that was low cost). That being said I researched cost as the primary reason to reload (flame on, I know the deal now..didn't then) as reloading rarely is more cost effective (although now i'm down to about 10 bucks a box for pistol ammo of any caliber).

So I bought everything to reload cast boolits and I started buying my own lead (Pb) then that lead to me buying a lee pour pot, then that lead to me buying mold after mold, after mold, until I had all my pistol calibers covered. So needless to say eventually I got to the point where, "hey I just casted 300 boolits, what do I do now?!?!", and this is where lee liquid alox (LLA) came in to the fold. I will go over my set up so people can relate or not relate to my experience and if they should take my suggestion with a grain of salt or not.

SET UP, CURRENTLY LOADING FOR: .357 Mag, .38 spec, 40 S&W, 45 ACP/AUTO
- Lee Anniversary Kit
- Lee Perfect Powder Measure (LPPM)
- Lee Safety Powder Scale
- Hornady (.1) digital Scale
- Lee 10 lb Lead Pour Pot
- Lee .401 and .451 diameter resizer kits.
- BRASS (Whatever I get from the range or pick up from public land)
- Lee bullet molds
--- 158 gr LRN (.358 dia), 38 spec, 357 mag
--- 200 gr LRN (.452" dia) , 45 ACP
--- 175 gr Truncated cone (.401" dia) , 40 S&W
- Homemade powder trickler when loading Alliant powders.
- All dies used are the 4 die sets from LEE reloading, rifles are RCBS in case people care.
- Primarily load with Alliant Unique but have used other Alliants and going to start AA #5 soon.
- LEE LIQUID ALOX

Now that everybody knows what i'm working with, I have to say that I really like LLA, it has served me well for over 2000 rds of the different calibers. I will say this though, it is very much firearm dependent. I have only loaded for pistol calibers, and although I cast and load for a lot of calibers, I do not load for a lot of different velocities, and burn rate has a lot to do with leading. But I can say with my good "plinking" recipes, I have not seen any "crazy" leading issues while using LLA. I will say this though, if you coat the boolits "too much" with LLA you run into a whole host of problems if you choose to load like i do. The first is general problems with stickiness, although some don't find this offensive, it is a major problem if you drop the boolit on the ground at any point in the process. Also the LLA will gunk up any piece of reloading equipment you will use post bullet casting, ie. resizers, seaters and crimpers. But with a little attention to detail you should be able to use LLA to reduce leading and produce very good casted boolit with exceptional accuracy (I no longer shoot anything but my own casts in competition <- when allowed).

Knowing when too much is too much, and too little is too little:
Living in a moderately dry climate, I can dry boolits over night that are coated in LLA. But in my limited experience, too much still gives the boolits a distinctive "tangerines mixed with varnish" smell after completely dry (this is not true if you flash dry them with a hairdrier, they will always retain the smell as per my experience). I like it when the boolits are coated with just enough LLA to see some brown in the groves but not enough to be obvious on the contoured edges. If I open the tupperware of my casts and I can smell the smell I know to reduce the next tumble. I usually tumble the casts in a ziplock bag (or common petroleum shopping bag) to get an even coat, this works well, unless you cast >200 or so boolits, the bag may rip. I lay them out on either wax or freezer paper over night and if in a hurry you can speed up the process with 30 mins of heat gun/ hair dryer treatment.

The only major draw back I have found with LLA is the resizing issue. I am still having problems with my resizer sizing boolits .001 smaller than they should, after about 100 or so. I think the LLA is building up on the walls of the resizer and eventually producing a boolit that could potentially be undersized, this could become an issue in my semi-autos, but as of yet has not caused an accuracy issue.

In long (was suppose to be short) I really like the LLA product it has served me well for what I use it for, quick coating on plinking and short range precision casts. Other posters have gotten it spot on, try what works best for you and knock em down range. To sum up, with my current set up, I have had the best experience with enough LLA to see some brown in the groves of the boolit but not enough to see swirls on the contours.

I hope this helps, feel free to ask questions anytime, as of late i've had a trial by fire of reloading cast boolits in a variety of pistol calibers.

FL

EDIT: I have not mixed the ALOX in mineral spirits yet, but i'm glad I stubbled on this thread, I will try that soon if nothing else it should add to the longevity. Also, some people have talked to me at local shooting spots about loading sub-sonics for pistols and for rifles...I would be hesitant on using LLA type bullet lubes on sub-sonics I might try a few out but I still have a lot of research to do. Also I am new to reloading as well sl please don't take this long winded post as trying to sound "uppity" I just want to let people know my experience and also learn from people that have casted thousands upon thousands of boolits over the years. I really enjoy reading and contributing to discussions. Not to hijack the post, but anyone with suggestions on other casts lubes for pistol casts please let us know.

[1bluehorse]

The only thing I've tried LA on have been "normal" bullets. I own no tumble lube molds. Tumble lube bullets may work just fine, I just don't like the way they look. Go figure. Like Gear, I don't find LLA messy and it is definitly easy to use. (thats why I decided to try it) the first few times I tried it I had good results with ONE style bullet and ONE pistol and thought it was the best thing since metal woods, but then I started getting mixed results with it with other bullets and guns (no rhyme nor reason here) accuracy was generally okay but I was getting quite a bit of leading.....I also have a lubrasizer and I use White Label 50/50 lube, (yeh it's soft and can be a little messy) but it works very well for me and my applications (good accuracy, no leading) so I see no reason to change ..so I guess bottom line for me....No more LA, I have a lubrasizer so I'll use it...

[MikeS]

I'll never undertand why anyone would call LLA "messy" and turn around and spend a session with a 450 wiping bases and getting lube all over their fingers and never think a thing of it. To me, LLA is the cleanest to handle of all lubes because you only have to touch it when it's DRY. And you don't have to set the boolits up on their bases after you pour them out on the waxed paper, just let them lie on their sides, it makes absolutely no difference to final performance.

Gear

I too don't understand the complaint about it being messy! I find any of my conventionally lubed boolits MUCH messier than any boolits lubed with LLA. In fact when I'm loading conventionally lubed boolits I usually keep a rag on my lap to wipe off the excess lube from the completed cartridges, something I don't need to do when using boolits lubed with LLA. I mean in theory I don't need to wipe off the finished rounds, but they're usually got some excess lube on them, and it's an uneven coating, sometimes only on one side, some boolits have no excess, some have lots, so I find it just looks better when I wipe down the boolits in my finished rounds. I suppose I could also wipe down my LLA lubed boolits, as the lube on the nose of the boolit isn't doing anything to help lube the boolits, but I figure it's a very thin coating, and it IS a uniform coating, and it's much harder to wipe off than conventional lube, so I just leave it on the boolits. If done correctly (that means a very thin coating of LLA), rather than putting a thick coating of LLA on the boolits, that I have no problem with it building up in the seating die, nor with the finished rounds collecting more dirt than conventional lube boolits.

I use mostly conventionally lubed boolits that I size in a Star lube-sizer, but also have some TL boolits that I lube with LLA. Slightly off topic, but I'm about to get another TL mould, a 2 cavity mould HP'ed by Erik of hollowpointmold.com. It's the TL452-230-2R, and when Erik makes it into a hollow point, it should be a really great shooting boolit, as it's a great shooting boolit before he works his magic on the mould, and it can only get better! Anyone that wants to cast HP boolits with a great mould really should try one of the Lee 2 cavity moulds Erik makes into a HP, as the process not only makes it a HP, but it also fixes some of the usual problems with Lee 2 cavity moulds! Unless you simply hate any mould that says LEE on the side of it, you will like using one of Erik's modified moulds, they really cast so easily that you might forget that you're casting HP boolits!

[FloridaFlyBoy]

My first ever mould and lube setup was the Lee .358148WC and the .358 Lee Sizer, which included a bottle of LLA (Lee Liquid Alox).

Like every caster before me created by the Lord Himself, I used too much LLA my first few times out. And like every caster before me, I did a little cussing over the stickiness and mess and smoke that excess LLA will cause.

However, I liked the ease and simplicity of tumble-lubing, even with traditional lube-grooved boolits, and I stuck with it. I tried cutting the LLA with mineral spirits which helped a lot. I started mixing concoctions, etc.

The one constant from the very first time I used the LLA, however, was that I got no leading and had excellent accuracy from my little Lee wadcutter boolits. And that was all I ever asked for.

Now, many boolits later, I still tumble lube some of my boolits--even those with traditional lube grooves. I also mix up my tumble lube concoction 45% LLA, 45% JPW (Johnsons Paste Wax) and 10% odorless mineral spirits. I lightly tumble lube the boolits, set them on wax paper overnight to dry thoroughly. Next day, I run them through the sizer, then lightly tumble lube and set back on the wax paper. Then I either load 'em up or store them.

I get superb accuracy, no smoke, no leading and a bore that can be cleaned with a couple of passes with a dry patch. Doesn't get better than that.

Are you still using this formula, and how is it working? I am using boolits cast by a company from the Space Coast of Florida, and got some lead in the barrels of a Colt Python .357 and Ruger Redhawk .44 ( shooting .44 spl to save on hard to find powder). Thanks to the input of some of the fine people on this blog, bullet lube for cast boolits had been unknown to me, and now I see it's a step I may have missed.

I am new to cast boolits, and this forum, and wise experienced input is greatly appreciated.

Best to all, Paul

[bangerjim]

Well if you are having doubts about LLA and other lubes, please consider electrostatic gun powder coating.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...powder+coating

I switched from LLA & the 45/45/10 goop to all PC. No mess, no grease, and most importantly....NO LEADING, even in rifle speeds.

Just pointing it out to you for your consideration. Many, many on here are doing it now and never look back. Nice thing, there are alternatives to almost everything!

bangerjim

[Airman Basic]

Are you still using this formula, and how is it working? I am using boolits cast by a company from the Space Coast of Florida, and got some lead in the barrels of a Colt Python .357 and Ruger Redhawk .44 ( shooting .44 spl to save on hard to find powder). Thanks to the input of some of the fine people on this blog, bullet lube for cast boolits had been unknown to me, and now I see it's a step I may have missed.

I am new to cast boolits, and this forum, and wise experienced input is greatly appreciated.

Best to all, Paul

Get 45-45-10 from White Label and tumble those store-boughts in it.
http://lsstuff.com/store/index.php?m...products_id=31

[runfiverun]

or make it yourself at home.
it's 45% cooked down [the solvent's are cooked off] Johnson's paste wax
45% alox, and 10% mineral spirits. [I add a lot more mineral spirits and some beeswax to mine]

[Airman Basic]

The ingredients cost almost as much as White Label's product, you're supporting a Castboolits vendor, and a quart of the stuff lasts about half of forever.

[FloridaFlyBoy]

The ingredients cost almost as much as White Label's product, you're supporting a Castboolits vendor, and a quart of the stuff lasts about half of forever.

(just kidding) Now you tell me !!. I missed the X-Lox post, and already purchased the items for the formula. ( One last question, maybe ? ) How is it applied? Spray, dip, etc.?

Maybe I am asking the wrong questions ...( being a newbie to cast boolits )n Thanks for bearing with me guys,
Thanks again guys. Best to all, Paul

[Airman Basic]

(just kidding) Now you tell me !!. I missed the X-Lox post, and already purchased the items for the formula. ( One last question, maybe ? ) How is it applied? Spray, dip, etc.?

Maybe I am asking the wrong questions ...( being a newbie to cast boolits )n Thanks for bearing with me guys,
Thanks again guys. Best to all, Paul

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-amp-Mess-Free

[FloridaFlyBoy]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-amp-Mess-Free

Thanks Airman!! Your Captain is well-pleased. In the days of Generals Patton and LeMay, you have earned a field promotion !!

Thanks again