I have been loading cast now for a month or so. I got to looking at bullet casting equipment from Midway and looking at "Liquid Alox Bullet Lube" and I am getting pros & cons on it at our range. The reviews are saying, "great stuff really does work or reduces leading or forget it. etc. "Is it any good? I now load 38 spc---148 LWC and 158 SWC at less than 900 fps. and a 405 FN. (45-70) at 1350 fps. All is used for target and/or silhouette shooting only. Thanks for your time.
Xlox(Alox) from Lars45, link bottom of this page, tested well for me. 45acp, Lyman bullet, target load, bullets unsized. 452" dia. Shot same as if lubed and sized in my Lyman 450. Follow Lees instructions for applying Xlox, same as Alox. Coated bullets should have a light brown color. See Lee link Info to apply. Link to Xlox> http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/liquid-x.html
Last edited by 243winxb; 08-07-2009 at 02:28 PM. Reason: added Xlox link
Liquid Alox is primarily intended for use on tumble lube boolits, popularized by Lee. These have lots of small lube grooves versus one or more larger lube grooves. Regular lubes, including Alox and beeswax formulations (and lots of others creative people have dreamed up) are primarily intended for boolits with conventional lube grooves.
Some people uses liquid Alox on conventional lube groove boolits, some use regular lube on tumble lube bullets, its all in the fun of working out the load you like for your gun. Because of all the variable involved what works good in your gun may not work good in somebody else's, thus accounting for the variety of responses you will get from other people.
I think the reason tumble lube boolits were designed was to allow you to shoot boolits as cast instead having to buy a luber/sizer, a real benefit to somebody wanting to try out casting without having to spend a lot of money upfront. Lee makes a simple and inexpensive push-thru die for a standard press if you need to size down your bullets, but it doesn't lubricate the boolit at the same time like a regular luber/sizer, which accounts for the much lower cost.
I would think that with a proper tumble lube boolit of the weight you indicate you could come up with good .38 loads pretty easily. No experience with 45/70 and cast yet, maybe somebody else will chime in here.
I use it on my tumble lube pistol boolits. I had been pan lubing my non-tumble lube pistol boolits but read that you could use LLA on them as well. Started to do that (way easier) and noticed no difference in performance at pistol velocities. When i get a lube/sizer I will probably start using conventional lube in those designs but for now and convenience sake, I have no complaints with the LLA on non-tumble lube designs. When I run out of the stuff that came with my Lee push through sizers (goes a looong ways) I will be ordering xlox to replace it.
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. " - Thomas Jefferson
"Mankind will in time discover that unbridled majorities are as tyrannical and cruel as unlimited despots." - John Adams
Lee's Liquid Alox will meet your needs, which are pretty modest. The White Label Xlox is about the same stuff with a different name, like Coke and Pepsi. In your range, either will work fine with either conventional or tumble lube bullets. It's a little thick as it comes. You can either thin if with mineral spirits or heat your bullets before applying. All you need is a golden tinge to your bullets. A thin coat dries much quicker and harder.Originally Posted by beng
There are better lubes, and you can find all sorts of opinions; some informed, some not. If you were doing something more demanding, I'd likely tell you different, myself. LLA and the Lee pushthrough dies are the poor boy's way into casting. Some of us keep using them for a lifetime. I still use them for .32 and .38 WCs among a few other applications. Haven't found anything worth the extra effort for those bullets. I also use LLA to shoot Lee's 459-405-HB as cast from a couple of .45-70s. My usual load is 31 grains of 4198 which must be very close to what you shoot.
Sometimes you gotta wonder if democracy is such a good idea.
My first ever mould and lube setup was the Lee .358148WC and the .358 Lee Sizer, which included a bottle of LLA (Lee Liquid Alox).
Like every caster before me created by the Lord Himself, I used too much LLA my first few times out. And like every caster before me, I did a little cussing over the stickiness and mess and smoke that excess LLA will cause.
However, I liked the ease and simplicity of tumble-lubing, even with traditional lube-grooved boolits, and I stuck with it. I tried cutting the LLA with mineral spirits which helped a lot. I started mixing concoctions, etc.
The one constant from the very first time I used the LLA, however, was that I got no leading and had excellent accuracy from my little Lee wadcutter boolits. And that was all I ever asked for.
Now, many boolits later, I still tumble lube some of my boolits--even those with traditional lube grooves. I also mix up my tumble lube concoction 45% LLA, 45% JPW (Johnsons Paste Wax) and 10% odorless mineral spirits. I lightly tumble lube the boolits, set them on wax paper overnight to dry thoroughly. Next day, I run them through the sizer, then lightly tumble lube and set back on the wax paper. Then I either load 'em up or store them.
I get superb accuracy, no smoke, no leading and a bore that can be cleaned with a couple of passes with a dry patch. Doesn't get better than that.
Personally I hate the stuff.I find it a pain to use. It's messy, sticky and slow. I does however work well. I have a Ranch Dog mold for my 38-55 and I used alox according to RD directions. It was slow and messy but worked like a charm. The stuff makes a great metal preservative! I coat guns being stored with it and it is the best product I know of for this. My .02
Jay
"The .30-06 is never a mistake." Townsend Whelen
"THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph."
Thomas Paine
+1 on that, Recluse, my experiences have been similar on guns that like it, I just wish I could get it to work for everything.My first ever mould and lube setup was the Lee .358148WC and the .358 Lee Sizer, which included a bottle of LLA (Lee Liquid Alox).
Like every caster before me created by the Lord Himself, I used too much LLA my first few times out. And like every caster before me, I did a little cussing over the stickiness and mess and smoke that excess LLA will cause.
However, I liked the ease and simplicity of tumble-lubing, even with traditional lube-grooved boolits, and I stuck with it. I tried cutting the LLA with mineral spirits which helped a lot. I started mixing concoctions, etc.
The one constant from the very first time I used the LLA, however, was that I got no leading and had excellent accuracy from my little Lee wadcutter boolits. And that was all I ever asked for.
Now, many boolits later, I still tumble lube some of my boolits--even those with traditional lube grooves. I also mix up my tumble lube concoction 45% LLA, 45% JPW (Johnsons Paste Wax) and 10% odorless mineral spirits. I lightly tumble lube the boolits, set them on wax paper overnight to dry thoroughly. Next day, I run them through the sizer, then lightly tumble lube and set back on the wax paper. Then I either load 'em up or store them.
I get superb accuracy, no smoke, no leading and a bore that can be cleaned with a couple of passes with a dry patch. Doesn't get better than that.
If you ask my guns, you will get different answers about LLA. My .45 ACPs love the stuff, and my .45 Colt loves it on one boolit only, leads like crazy with two other styles I've tried, sized the same.
The .38 Airweight loves Lyman 358665 with thinned LLA, one coat after sizing. My GP100 absolutely hates the stuff at any velocity I've tried, on any boolit I've tried. But it loves the harder stick Alox. Go figure.
I'm too chicken to try it on my rifles, I use stick lube (various kinds) and the Lyman 450 for those with such good luck and low volume that the LLA wouldn't offer any advantage for me.
Bottom line, with pistols I reach for LLA FIRST. If it doesn't work and I've exhausted my patience trying everything I can think of to make it work, THEN I try some other kind of lube. The stuff is just too cheap and easy to use not to try.
Gear
Edit: Beng, If you're considering Liquid Alox, please get it from Lar's, not Midway. Your money is far better spent.
i am so confused now
they sell the lee alox in the sizing kit yet it is intended for use on tumble lube bullets but those are specifically made so they dont need sizing
i think i cramped my brane
LLA came first, then the tumble lube design. I use it for everything, .40s&w, .45ACP, .357 pistol and rifle. No leading at all. I mix the LLA 50/50 with JPW. Trying to figure out how to add some carnauba wax to it to see what it will do.
[QUOTE=bohokii;632007]i am so confused now
they sell the lee alox in the sizing kit yet it is intended for use on tumble lube bullets but those are specifically made so they dont need sizing
i think i cramped my brane
[The TL boolits can usually be loaded as cast, but as we all find out sometimes a particular gun likes a slightly different diameter or one or more cavities in a mold drop them a little too big, the Lee push thru sizers give you an inexpensive way to deal with the problem. A bigger problem is that Lee only offers a limited range of sizes.
Dutch
"The future ain't what it used to be".
-Yogi Berra.
JPW already contains about 10% carnauba, which should be plenty to make your bore shine which is it's only purpose in lube.
Gear
Carnauba wax also raises the melting point of lubes. I live in a hot climate (California desert) and need all the help I can get. I have had to carry my ammo to the range in an ice chest before. Ammo left sitting in the sun can get uncomfortably hot to handle.
As wallenba said, when you combine mold diameter tolerances with alloy composition/shrinkage variations you can end up with a bullet that is either too small, within a range that will shoot OK, or too big to chamber.
If too small you'll probably get blowby and some leading and you'll cuss LLA to everybody.
If in middle range you'll love the convenience and you'll praise LLA to everybody.
If too big you'll have to add extra steps (sizing and relubing) and you won't gain much advantage (other than financial) over using a convential luber/sizer. And if you like bullet casting enough you'll eventually buy one. And then you can show it off to all your friends!
One of the first things I learned when began reloading a zillion years ago, was to control all variables possible.
For boolits I cast myself, one of those variables that I can control is size.
I know that TL boolits are supposed to be "cast, lube, load, shoot," but when I've put the mic to random TL boolits at random times, I've gotten random sizes.
Therefore, my motto is, "If I cast it, I size it. No exceptions."
Anything that doesn't go my way after that, I can at least eliminate sizing as an issue.
When you push any boolit through the Lee sizer die it needs to be lubed. I have used LLA and a Lee .356 sizer on .358 semi-jacketed hollow points so they would fit in my 9mm.
If you cast good round boolits with the TL Lee molds, than you should not need to size them. I have had good luck with the .41, .45, and .44 Lee TL molds. But I also have a Lee factory crimp die that will re-size the boolit in the case.
Welcome to the board beng.
I'm one of those that likes LLA. It's the only lube I use, and on everything, doesn't matter what size or style. I'm not going to say that it is the best lube to use in all cases. I just haven't found one that will justify me in buying one of the fancy models from Star, Lyman, or RCBS. Yes I can see where others say that it is messy, smells bad and takes more time to dry. However those things don't bother me.
I like to cut mine down with a third mineral spirits. A little will go a long way and this will also help reduce the drying time. Leading has not been an issue in any of the firearms that I've fired it threw. Even up to 2600 fps in '06 there hasn't been any leading found. Granted I couldn't find the target with anything fired that fast, just that there was no leading.
If you shoot them as cast one coat is enough, if they are sized and / or gas checked, then a second coat will be needed before loading.
I see your two boxes of Alox lubed boolits, and raise you an ice cream bucket.
Nora
If you don't have the time to do it right, when are you going to find the time to fix it?
Nora, I'll see your two boxes of Alox lubed boolits, an ice cream bucket, and raise YOU a 1-quart freezer bag!
Gear
Funny thing about LLA here in germany.U can´t order LLa as such from the U.S , as they will not ship,but if u order a sizing kit you´ll get a bottle with it.LOL
Uwe
If you contacted Lar45 and ordered some "rust preventative" could it work for you then?
Posting Permissions
| BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
| BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
| BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
| C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
| HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
| PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
| LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
| GC | Gas Check |
Reply With Quote
