Bullet size in 30-30 win?

[TNSHOOTER]

Well, to get started, I've cast alot for handguns but I'm new to casting for a rifle.
I just got a Lee 150 gr. FN gas check bullet mold that drops bullets at .312.
The bullets will be shot in a 30-30 Winchester94 . Bore Dia. is .308.
My question is, I've lubed and seated the gas check with a .313 sizer. Is the bullets too big? I haven't loaded any yet, but If there is no chambering problems this should be fine, right? Lube is Blue Angle. Alloy is Clip on WW qwenched.
Also, I have these Powders to work with.
RL-7
IMR 3031
IMR 4895
H335
I've read these are good powders for 30-30 cast loads. What powder charges should I start with?
If I use 2400 do I have to use a filler? If so, what do I use?
Thanks for any answers to these questions fellas.

Dave
Morgan County, Tennessee. Yes, a red county and state.

[imashooter2]

What size is the chamber neck? The loaded round needs to chamber and have room for the neck to expand and release the boolit on firing. I use the Lee C309-150-F in my Marlin AS sized at .311 and it works very well.

One other thing to watch for is that the check (which is .001 larger than the boolit) doesn't expand the case neck on loading and cause insufficient case neck tension to securely hold the boolit. Setback can raise pressures significantly.

There is plenty of published data for those powders in .30/30. Use published starting loads. One of my favorites is 15.5 grains of 2400. In my 20 inch rifle this gets a touch over 1,700 fps with very good accuracy. I do not use filler and have had no consistency problems (16 fps Standard Deviation).

[northmn]

I have used the 150 grain Lee in my Marlin CB with excellent results, but sized it to 309. Whether the extra .003 would matter depends on alloy, rifle, load etc. 4759 at 14.5 grains worked so well I did not try other powders. I have shot a few deer with a 188 gr cast that worked very well at 1900 fps. Whether they would know the difference between that and a150 up close might be questionable.

Northmn

[DLCTEX]

I have the Lee 311-170fp and size it .311 for my Marlin. The bore riding portion engraves on chambering and sometimes takes a firm squeeze of the lever to close on it. Also a good crimp is needed to keep from pulling the boolit if ejecting a loaded round. You' just have to load (prefferably a dummy round) and see how it works in your rifle as there are so many varibles from gun to gun. I have had good results with R-7, SR4759, and SR7625 powders.

[Chuck 100 yd]

Most of my .30-30`s do very well with bullets sized to .3095.
I use no filler with 2400 or any other powder.

[runfiverun]

all the powders you list will do fine in the 30-30
i like to size for both of mine at 310.
try looking at loads in the 1900- 2100 fps or more range in your winchester.
if they are plain base boolits i would start at 1400 fps and see what you can get.

[Larry Gibson]

Let me add a little bit more;

I've loaded cast bullets for numerous M94 30-30s over the years. I arbitrarily size cast bullets at .311 max becuase I have run into chambering difficulties with larger sized bullets. Of course case neck thickness can vary but a .311 cast bullet chambers in all M94s I've used over the years regardless of the case used. Accuarcy with that size cast bullet is also exceptional. If a mold drops bullets less than .311 I try to size and lube with a sizing die that is as close to "as cast" as possible. I also use several cast bullets that drop at more than 311. I then size, seat the GC and lube the cast bullet at the larger diameter and then run the bullets through a Lee .311 sizer.

As to the powders you mention; RL-7, IMR 3031, IMR 4895, H335. All are fine powders for the 30-30 with heavier cast bullets. However, with the 30-30 I've found that by the time you get efficient burning/ignition your velocities are getting too high for optimal accuacy. As an example; recent tests with IMR4895 showed that velocity reached 2200 fps be fore the extreme spread of velocity for a 30 gr charge dropped below 100 fps. Suggest you try the first 3 in the order listed and use a 1/2 gr filler of dacron. H335 will not be a good powder with 150 gr cast bullets.

I wsould also suggest that you just might try 2400 as it is more in the burning range that will do well with 150 gr cast bullets. I don't have load data for it but am sure others do or at least a place to start. With my cast 150 gr bullets in the 30-30 I use 4759 with a 1/2 gr dacron filler as that powder performs the best with the 3 current 150 gr cast bullets I use the 30-30.

Larry Gibson

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Hi, I've been loading for two Winchester 94's; a rifle and a carbine. Other than the barrel length the operation is pretty much the same. I've used Lyman mold #311291, a 170 grain or thereabouts with WW; its an old single cavity that drops the bullets at .310 and I run them thru a .310 die which essentially just lubes them, .310 or .311 are probably the best sizes to work with...the grouping will tell you which one is better. There are a lot of powders to chose from that will work well. I just stuck with IMR 3031 as it gives me good accuracy. I started with 25 grains and worked up to 27 which worked well out of both rifles. If one needs more whomp it can be pushed up to 30 or 31, but that will put the velocity pretty close to factory spec. I use a gas check. A 150 grain cast bullet should work well in the 30-30; it'll go a bit faster though. Be sure and use a good lube. LLS

[NickSS]

I load for two 94 Win, a 336 Marlin and a Pedersoli RB in 30-30. I mostly use the Lyman 311041 GC bullet sized to .312". This really does nothing except wipe the lube onto the bullet and crimp the GC. I use IMR 4198, AA5744, Unique and I have used other powders like Red Dot, 3031, 4895 and H335. All worked well. My favorite load at this time is 18 gr of 4198. This load gives me 2 to 3" groups (depending upon which rifle I am shooting) at 200 yards which is what I developed it to do.

[TNSHOOTER]

Thanks everyone, for the info.
I sizes the bullets to .311 and worked up to 15.5 gr. of 2400. 1724 FPS. with the 150 LEE bullet. Gas Check too. I shot an avrage group size of 1.189" 5 shots, 25 yards. That's not very good, is it?
I'm getting no leading ether.
Dave

[cbrick]

Like Larry I feed my Win 94 30-30 with 4759. I don't use a filler but I use one of several 180 gr moulds for both the 30-30 and the 308.

I have never sat down at the bench and tried for best possible groups but with the for me, really horrible stock sights it does a fine job on the 200 meter rams. I have the Marbles peep for this Winchester so now if I would just get the reciever drilled and tapped and install it.

If you get around to trying a little heavier bullet try a 180 with 18.0 gr 4759 and a standard rifle primer. Mine does 1850 fps with the RCBS or SAECO 180 with mild recoil.

Rick

[Marlin Junky]

Well, to get started, I've cast alot for handguns but I'm new to casting for a rifle.
I just got a Lee 150 gr. FN gas check bullet mold that drops bullets at .312.
The bullets will be shot in a 30-30 Winchester94 . Bore Dia. is .308.
My question is, I've lubed and seated the gas check with a .313 sizer. Is the bullets too big?

In a word, probably. 1 to 1.5 thou over groove works best in my Winchesters and Marlins and sometimes .0005" to .0010" over groove works best. You didn't mention bullet hardness which is paramount to your success. A softer bullet is more likely to tolerate more 'swagging' than a harder bullet; however, in your case, I'm afraid your bullets will be a mess by the time they exit the muzzle. Then again, I could be wrong. Shoot some groups and post your targets.

As far as safety is concerned, you better make sure there's enough room in the chamber to release the bullets... otherwise pressure may skyrocket.

MJ

[shootrj2003]

"I use the C309-150-F in my Marlin AS sized at .311.."I am new at cast bullets ,maybe I am wrong but isn't sizing the act of compressing or making a bullet smaller in cross section?As in sizing from .310 mold to a .310 sized or to .309 día.? Isn't a C 309-150-F ,a .309 mold,which of course might throw a bit bigger or smaller depending on the alloy,but not normally throwing a bullet big enough to need resizing to .311,unless I have the mold no.right, And the numbers have no corellation to the bullet size.or I have the wrong idea as to what sizing is.Not trying to be a wiseguy,but if I have something wrong let me know ,I'd like to start off right at this.

[northmn]

A sizer is designed to size to a desired diameter from a larger diameter an also to offer consistency. Those using Marlin's with microgrooves tend to use a larger diameter bullet as they feel that gives better accuracy. I had good results in my Marlin Cowboy sizing a bullet down to 309. It was a 185 grain bullet designed for the 303 British. I also used the Lee Liquid Alox for lube so may have gained a slight increase in diameter. The Cowboy had "Ballard" rifling. One thing Larry G. mentioned was the use of slower powders with cast bullets and shot to shot variation. I have generally found faster burning powders like R7 or 4198 to be the more accurate. 4759 worked very well for me. Going to even faster powders for lighter loads seems to be better.

Don't try to over think the 30-30 with cast bullets too much. I have found it tends to be very versatile in cast bullet use. As to what is the most accurate? Alloy hardness is as much a factor as diameter. Probably as another mentioned, with softer bullets the larger diameter may work better. With harder ones maybe only .001 over bore or so is fine. I loaded my 30-30 for deer hunting and followed the advice of Frank Marshall who stated in essence that if developing a hunting load one has to determine if you are hunting deer or trying to shoot cock roaches at 100 yards.

DEP

[megasupermagnum]

I found great accuracy in a model 94 with the Lee 170 grain, which is nothing but the longer version of your 150 gr. I've never tried a bullet that big. My favorite load was 28 grains 3031 with the Lee 170gr sized to .311".

Hodgdon's website has load data. I would recommend 3031, it always seemed to be better than 4895 for me. I've heard good things about H335 too.

[shootrj2003]

Forgive me,someone made a mistake in a post and I was wanting to be sure I I'd not have something wrong,I did not they merely wrote something wrong and all is good.my mold for my 1895 will be here tomorrow as will my .311 150 gr. Cast bullets and my new lead furnace,I also picked up 100 hot core speers for my 30/30 today.the mold is a hollow bottom 405 gr.,some more fun.