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Thread: 308 or 309

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    308 or 309

    Hello all new to the form, I have been casting pistol bullets, and reloading, for over 30 years, but now I am going to take the plunge into rifle casting, thanks to the Obama Administration and the lack of in stock bullets, My question is. I am looking at the Lyman 311291 mold for 30 30 308 3006 . This is a 170 Gr, gas check mold. Will I need to slug all three barrels or should I go with the .309 seizer. thanks for any help in advance.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

    RayinNH's Avatar
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    hornady, welcome to the site. Your best results will be by slugging the three firearms. If you don't want to do that then I would go for a .310 sizer, it can be lapped out if you need bigger...Ray
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    .308/.309

    Hi and welcome to the forum. The 311291 is an excellent choice for 30 cal. It is a very old and successful design and is very popular. A flatnosed version 311041 is also available for persons using a rifle such as the Winchester 94 that has a tubular magazine. I have used the 291 in my 94's and have yet to blow myself up and although I only have put 2 or 3 in the mags; still a lot of folks don't think that it is a good idea. Slugging the bores is a good suggestion as its better to know things than not. You will need at least .309 as it gives a better gas seal. Many loaders play it safer/surer by using .310. You might see a difference in the grouping as rifles are known to do that. The 291 will work(seat) very well in the 30-30 and the 30-06 as the length of the case necks is adequate, but the 308 case has a shorter neck so it has to be either seated deeper (going deeper than the neck and into the powder area is not good) or seating the bullet out. This issue may not be of consequence or important depending on the type of rifle involved. Use at least WW hardness or water quench the castings for harder BHN if needed and use a good lube. If going over around 1500 fps velocity consider using a gas check. The 291 is an easy bullet to cast and is capable of excellent accuracy when the powder charges are well adjusted. Good luck & shooting. LLS

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Thank you, both for your fast replies , I think I will go with the .310 seizer, I cast 9mm 38 / 357 and 45ACP and 50cal muzzle loader and was hopping. I would be able to just size one 30 cal as I will be gas checking them. hopping to not need 2 or 3 seizers, I will be using a wheel weight / Lino mix, I use for pistol, I get an average BHN of 21 on my seaco tester. Thanks again

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Hornaday... You have made a great bullet choice. 311291 is one of the original Barlow designs dating to 1905 and has proven itself for many years. I agree .310 will do what you want. If that 30-30 is a Marlin Micro-Groove you might need to go a little larger, but use. 310 first and see how it goes.

    311291 was designed for the30-30 and that very blunt nose won't give you any problems setting off primers in a tubular magazine. a 30-30 just won't produce enough recoil for that to be an issue with that bullet.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Slug all three barrels and size for the largest. A .310 size die is not the easiest to find and you may need a .311 anyway.
    Just because change doesn't make a difference doesn't mean that change is bad.

  7. #7
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    Blammer's Avatar
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    there is a group buy going on for a 311291, so if you want a 5 cavity that is an option!

    I think that boolit you chose will be the best suited for all 3 of your firearms.

    then later you can get a good "monster" for the 30-06.
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  8. #8
    Boolit Master Hurricane's Avatar
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    Either 311291 or 311041 would be a good boolit for any 30 caliber rifle. I have both and get very good accuracy with both. I get better accuracy when I use a gas check although either can be used without a gas check if necessary. Both boolits are good for tube magizine rifles. I use a softer bullet than you plan to use. I usually shoot rifle boolits around 14 or 15 BHN at speeds from 1600 to 1800. So far no leading. I use a 311 sizer for all my 30 caliber rifles. I credit the larger size as one reason I no not get leading.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks for the replies,. The lyman cast book shows .309 as a standard. But that is with lyman number 2. The mix I want to use is harder at a BHN of 21. Which is what I cast my pistol bullets from. So they would drop out of the .311 mold a little under size. I think I will try the .310 with this mix. If I run into problems, I will try straight wheel weights. And the .311 seizer. Mid-South online has both the Lyman .310 and .311 in stock. That’s not something you hear much these days. in stock Thanks again for all your impute

  10. #10
    Boolit Master pdawg_shooter's Avatar
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    When I used a high BHN alloy my bullets drop a little bigger than a softer alloy.
    45 AUTO! Because having to shoot someone twice is just silly!

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Sorry when I typed that I put it down just backwards. The more Lino the larger the bullet. Not thinking right this morning

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check