1903 Springfield ?

[Andrew Quigley]

Howdy ya'll

Can someone tell me what parts will intrchange between a 1903 Springfield and a 1903 A 03? I have a new stock my Pop gave me when I was a kid. Been looking around for parts to build it with, not to hard due to money being tight, but not to sure what will interchange between to to models.
I know it's a 1903 because of the finger grooves. Thanks for any help.

[docone31]

These folks sure helped me out with my 1903-A3.
http://www.e-gunparts.com/productsch...NGFIELD%201903
You can directly compare between the 03, and the 03-A3. I do not know how many parts will actually fit, but some can.
I have a rear sight I am not useing.

[WILCO]

Can someone tell me what parts will intrchange between a 1903 Springfield and a 1903 A 03?

Dude,

I don't have a clue, but good luck with the project.

[shotman]

Well almost every thing will inter change. The stocks are same. inlet is the same. The barrel is a little different and the sights are different. Top hand guard is different. The main thing is all the parts on a 03 is machined. and all the parts on a A3 is stamped. Oh the finger groove was an early type but I have seen them on later guns . It should be a straight[no pistol grip] and have brass through bolts

[NickSS]

The main difference between the 03 and the 03A3 is stamped parts for the trigger guard, bands, butt plate etc on the A3 model. Also the 03 had a leaf sight on the barrel that is quite complex. The A3 was fitted with a receiver sight. The 03 came with about three different stocks including a straight grip and a pistol grip one. The A3 Came mostly with a semi pistol grip stock without finger grooves in the fore stock. The upper hand guards were different to allow for the leaf sight on the 03. As far as I know and 03 or 03A3 stock will fit any springfield but the upper hand guards will not swap. Same with all metal hardware.

[Andrew Quigley]

So a barrel or reciever from either should work? Just get the sights to fit whichever barrel & reciever I get.
Not trying to put together an all orginal rifle, just a good shooter. What about a 2 grove verse's a 4 grove barrel?

[Char-Gar]

I am going from memory, but I think all parts will interchange between the 03 and the 03A3 except the front and rear sights. The barrel for the 03 also has a lug from the rear sight. I sure have mixed and matched a bunch of them.

People go on and on about 2 vs. 4 groove barrels. With condom bullets there is not much to choose between them. With cast bullets that have a long bore riding nose, the 2 groove give better support for the nose. On other styles of cast bullets there is not much to choose between the two.

I have 03A3s with both 2 and 4 groove barrels and really don't have a preferance. Either will do just fine.

[leadman]

Don't know how your eyesight is, but the rear sight for an A3 is a peep and much easier for us old guys to use.
You want to stay away from certain early recievers due to brittleness. They are Springfield Armory below serial #800,000 and Rock Island below serial #285,507.
There are some early recievers that were reheat treated but I would stay away from them IMO.
Might save some money if you look for a rifle that was sporterized but still has the original length barrel since you have a stock. I picked up one for less than $200.00.
The CMP website has info on the recievers and also a forum with lots of good info and parts for sale by CMP and individuals.

[Bob S]

A M1903 action will fit in any stock that was made for the 03/03A3 series. The converse is not true. The M1903 recoil lug was scalloped, and the mortice in the stock was scalloped to match. The recoil lug on the 03A3 was a big rectangular blob and it won't fit in a stock that was made prior to 1942. I can post pix to illustrate later; can;t access photobucket here at the company orifice.

Front sight assembies will interchange if you are willing to cut the small notch in the key or splice to match the position of the pin on the "opposite" front sight base.

Barrels are functionally interchangeable, if you're not concerned about "authenticity". It will take some work on a lathe to get the M1905 rear sight to fit on an 03A3 barrel, but there's not much call for that work these days.

The 03A3 handguard will have to be trimmed a bit to get an '03 milled upper band to fit.

Given equal dimensional uniformity in the bore, straightness, and concentricity of the bore with contour, two and four groove barrels will shoot equally well with either jacketed or cast. The two groove barrels were made in a time when productivity was more important than quality; finding a two-groove barrel that is dimensionally uniform, straight and concentric with the outside contour, and with bore/groove diameters near the .300/308 ideal is next to impossible. Most of the two groove barrels that I have measured have groove/bore diameters closer to the allowed maximums of .3015/.3095. The two groove barrels have a reputation for shooting well with cast bullets in part because cast bullets can be made to fit the too-large bores, and most cast loads are low intensity when compared to regular service loads, and they are remarkably tolerant of variations in bore quality and even mediocre bedding.

Resp'y,Bob S.

[flounderman]

you can get the demil 03 from cmp for a little of nothing some are pretty much junk and some were not that severely torched.

[Bob S]

Here's the promised picture.

Top: A M1903Mark I stock and bottom of the action. Note the finely scalloped recoil ug, and the matching contour in the mortice in the stock.

Middle: A Remington M1903 produced in mid-1942. Note there is only a feeble attempt to scallop the recoil lug, and the mortice for the recoil lug has matching shape. The mortice is much larger than the mortice in the M1903 stock form 1918. The Remington M1903 action will not fit in the 1918 stock.

Bottom: Contract-made stock, circa 1943-44. Will fit either the M1903 or 03A3. Note that it has the inletting for the M1905 rear sight fixed base, inletting for the 03A3 barrel guard ring, and the larger squared off mortice for the M1903A3 recoil lug.



Resp'y,
Bob S.

[Mr Humble]

With all due respect to the brave G.I.s who could not get an M-1 and had to carry an 03A3, an 03A3 is not a "Springfield"or a "Rock Island" it was a wartime necessity made with "war grade" steel, stamped parts, cheap wood and no hand fitting. They will shoot okay and the rear sight is easier to use.
(Actually the P14/17 Enfield and the WWII SMLE had the best battle sights).
A real 03' 1903-39 is a thing of beauty, virtually hand made. Your FG stock is off a real 03'.
The low number BS is BS. Read Hatcher's book to find out why they really gave way.

For 30-06 cast bullet info get The NRA Cast Bullet book by Col. E. H. Harrison (out of print) but look on the net. You should also own this one: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=796528

BTW, some had no stock crossbolts, some had 1 some had 2. Depends on original DOM plus rebuilds.

Standard reference is J.C. Harrison's The Collectible 03'

This is a real 03' you'll never confuse it with the Remington or Smith Corona 03A3!(first picture)
A real 03 is a one MOA or better rifle especially these (second picture)
For real fun, try this (third picture)
This is said to be pretty good 03A4 sniper repro. for about a grand by Gibbs. It is built on 03A3 receivers with new wood & 4 groove bbl. Repro weaver 330 scope in correct Redfield (repro) mount.(fourth picture)

[Bob S]

I guess I don't understand the fascination with 03A4's. They were not assembled with any special care to ensure accuracy, and the telescope was a .22 scope that fogged up if the humidity got high, let alone in the rain. Every after-action report that I have read concerning these was especially damning. You can certainly make an 03A3 shoot very well indeed (I got my Master classification card with one in 1973), and you could make a fake 03A4 with one but it would take some serous tweaking and then you'd have to baby the rifle and scope to keep it shooting that way. After Saving Private Ryan hit the theatres, all the mall ninjas that have never experienced hostile fire had to have one. I guess I just don't see the point.

J.C. Harrison's book on the 03's is so full of errors and obvious fabrications that I deep-sixed my copy, and I will never purchase anything else that he writes. According to Harrison, this is a Type Something-or-Other National Match Rifle. Nothing of the kind was ever authorized or manufactured by the government. It's a complete fabrication.




I still have my original 03A3 from 1965, and it still shoots quite well.



Resp'y,
Bob S.

[Mr Humble]

With respect, I beg to differ. If you had Harrison's book and went through all the identifying marks and characteristics, you could tell if it is a real NM or a built gun. I publish and sell gun books, have a far too large library (my wife says) and a big gun safe full of 03s. In terms of accuracy from low to high, Brophy, Senich, Poyer and Harrison. I reprinted this little hardcover beauty from the original I own that was owned (signed) by Ned Roberts. Finally, anyone who believes the government had reliable data or knowledge of what went on at either SA or RI is dreaming. Their records are a place to start but only by handling 1000s of 03s, taking notes and thinking a lot, can one begin to appreciate the variety of things that went on in those two arsenals.



The second rarest 03' military style variant. Know what it is?

[Mr Humble]

BTW, no N.M. 03's were ever issued with Lyman 17A front sights. Is the rear sight a Lyman 48 with target knobs?
The sight slide looks too short for an N.M.
If we had the serial #, bbl date, star gauge info, all other letters & numbers on wood and metal as well as some clear pictures close up, I'm reasonable confident, we could i.d. the rifle.

Guess I'd want to know as you could have a $700 rifle or a $3000 one.

You must be wealthy to toss a Harrison book...they are not cheap. If you have any other books of this quality you want to "toss", toss them my way, I'll happily pay the postage!

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Reading these last few posts has reminded me how little I wound up knowing a about these rifles and their history. From the years of turbulence often associated with youth and the shifting winds and sands of destiny related thereto, I was able to wind up with a high numbered 1903, one of the last to be assembled by SA in the later 30's. The other survivor is an RIA that also what I learned is yet another "put-together" from the later 20's with an astronomical SN well over four hundred thousand. Both are in pristeen shape and I take good care of them; they shoot pretty close to MOA at 100 yards. FWIW I once had the good fortune to meet and do business with a gentleman dealer who lived in the lower Hudson Valley of New York State. His name was Peter Cardone and he had what had to have been the leading collection of 1903 Springfields in the world. He took me once on a tour of his collection; rooms and rooms filled with numerous racks of incredible rarities and variations...some of which only 1, 2, or 3 were ever made. It was literally a museum filled with dream pieces that tested the limits of the imagination. I did not have the knowledge, experience or depth at the time (and still don't) to grasp the magnitude of what I saw, but never forgot the occasion. Mr Cardone passed on but I wonder what became of his collection; whether it was retained intact or broken up. You gentlemen would have appreciated it. LLS

[leadman]

I would follow the CMPs recommendations on the reciever, especially since you need to purchase one.
Here is the first 3 shots out of my CMP Remington 1903A3 with 2 groove barrel. First 2 shots went almost thru the X, got excited and pulled the third. Never touched the sight adjustment . Load was shot at 100yds. Was a little warm for this gun.
And yes, I have shot similar groups with other loads.

[Char-Gar]

I strongly disagree with the statement that a real 03 is a 1 moa rifle. I have fired way to many of them to believe that. A standard 03 will be a 2 moa rifle and with some tweaking and careful ammo selection will be a 1.5 MOA rifle. With some serious tweaking and the planets in proper alignment moa groups can be had.

I don't dispute the fact that there might be a rack grade moa rifle or two out there, but they are not the norm.

[sundog]

Charles, you are correct. I have shot as many as ten to twelve military bolt matches a year for the past twelve to thirteen years. Each match is 50 record rounds in 10-round strings from the bench. That's somewhere over six thousand match rounds from several 03s and 03A3s with an occasional divergence with an Type 99 Arisaka, No 4 Mk I, M96, and K31. While an exceptionally small group happens, it is usually in the 1.5 range. Average for my best 03A3 is probably in the 2.5+ range although it does shoot smaller rarely. I had one target last month that had two bug holes in it about 2.5 inches apart. I've shot several 1.5ish groups, but it is the exception rather than the rule. These are all 'as issued' rifles.

Trigger jobs, bedding, crowns, betters sights and scopes, etc., will get you better. A consistent 10-shot MOA is a real challenge. Three shot groups could prolly get you there.

[Michael Petrov]

"The second rarest 03' military style variant. Know what it is?"

Please tell us what that is I don't reconize it. Looks like an aftermarket scope mount with a WinchesterA5.