Back from camp perry- who else went?

[jonk]

Carbine match- did rather poorly. 290/400. The rear sight kept riding up. Gotta fix that!

Springfield match- got a bronze.

Garand match- bronze. I might have gotten a silver but conditions were very trying; pouring rain and a 20 mph gusting wind. It's hard to shoot well with your hand slipping on the forearm despite a shooting glove, the rear aperture filling with water, your scope fogged up, and lying in a puddle of mud. So I took it as a win to do that well.

Vintage- 98k. 175 gr cast GC, 50/50. I went with 21 gr of Alliant 2400. BobS suggested trying 18 but I tried 16-22 and still found that at 200 yards the 21 gr was best for me. Ok... I went out the day before the match and verified the load. Right on at 200 for windage, elevation set to 600 yards. Plastered the 10 and X ring in practice, 30 rounds fired, 21 in the 10 and X, the rest in the 9 ring.

Then on to Perry. Where, for some reason, the load was shooting about 8" left. I had my sight tool with me and drifted...and drifted....and drifted....and it didn't seem to move the point of impact at all! I shoved that sight over so the blade base was hanging WAY out to the left and it was still shooting to the same place, 8" left. VERY strange. There was a crosswind but pretty mild, maybe 5-8mph. At 200 it shouldn't buck a 175 gr bullet that much. So long story short, I had to kentucky windage it and aim at about 4 o'clock on the bull. Once I did that I was hitting the center pretty reliably but that's a hard hold to manage consistantly and I finished with a modest 240-1X, no medal.

Drives me nuts. I know that for grouping that load would get me a silver at least if I did my part but oh no, the gods weren't smiling that day.

Still I had fun.

[garandsrus]

Jonk,

It was a fun week. I was ready to come home when the Garand match ended though.

The gods must have been busy smiling on me. I made the Presidents 100 for the first time and won Leg points the next day in the NTI. I am about 1/2 way to Distinguished now. In the CMP Games, I got a gold medal with the Garand, Springfield, and Carbine. Silver with a Swedish Mauser.

I shot on the first Garand relay and got lucky as we shot between rain showers.

I didn't shoot cast in the Mauser. I may try it next year.

John

[jonk]

One of these days I'll have to try to get some leg points in suitable matches. I don't really have a gun for that type of shooting but I'd like to pick up an M1A. I COULD use my M1 but that would be a hard sell to shoot that well with an as issued M1.

[garandsrus]

Jonk,

Rock River Arms has/had a great deal on AR-15's at Camp Perry. I think the price was $850 for a National Match model. This is the exact same rifle that is $1200 in their catalog.

The Ohio Rifle and Pistol Association holds a couple Leg matches at Perry each year.

John

[jonk]

I don't want an AR-15. I have no problem with someone shooting what they like- we all have different tastes, but I personally hate the looks of the gun, hate how it charges, the twang in the buttstock from firing, the composite furniture, and the overall balance of the weapon. I'm not nuts about an M1A either but can live with it; personally I just shoot a little longer gun better, prefer the wood stock (yeah, I know you can get an AR-15 wood stock set), and the overall feel of the gun. I've shot both a good bit and they are fine weapons, just the AR especially doesn't do it for me.

Now that said, $850 is indeed a good price for one. But I won't buy a gun I don't like even at a bargain- if it were HALF that I might but it's just not my cup of tea.

Finally I am already set up to load for the .308. That wouldnt' be a decing factor but is a nice perk.

Mainly I'm into vintage bolt gun collecting but do the competition thing as a side line.

But I guess I could take out the M1 to one of their leg matches. I probably wouldn't get any leg points but it would be good practice until I get something better, and hey, you never know, I HAVE seen shooters (better than I !) get distinguished status with an M1.

[garandsrus]

Jon,

A Garand at a Leg match wouldn't be very competitive, but it sure would be fun! You would get to shoot it out to 600 yds.

I shot with a guy from Arizona this week who went distinguished with a M1A in 2005. I would think that he is the most recent person to do so as it doesn't happen very often any more. I saw him shoot at 600 yds and he did great. He said that he has around $2000 into the rifle.

John

[jonk]

I saw one guy get some leg points with an as issued M1 but Lapua brass and bullets... high quality hand loads. No one was more surprised than he was. I'm not saying I won't get an AR, just not wanting one right now. My tastes change from time to time... there was the day when I was into mainly Marlin .22s... then bolt action vintage guns... of late I've been on a handgun kick.

[Rooster]

I've shot them but what exactly does "LEG" mean?

The Peanut Gallery

[Echo]

In the good old days, when the Army was running the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice (NBPRP, what is now the CMP), they sponsored Service Pistol and Rifle matches at large matches - Regionals, Major Command, and so on. The top 10% of the non-distinguished competitors were awarded medals. The bottom 1/2 of the top 10% got bronze medals, the next 1/3 got silver medals, and the top 1/6 of the top 10% got gold medals. At least one of each medal was awarded, no matter how many competitors. Points were awarded also - 6,8, and 10. I believe the different services had different criteria for awarding the Distinguished Medal - in the Air Force one needed to accumulate 30 points to be awarded the Distinguished Medal. The bronze, silver, and gold NPPRP medals were called 'leg' medals, since they provided a leg up toward the Distinguished Medal. Hence the comment 'I legged...'.

[Bob S]

A milking stool needs three legs to stand. In the old days, you needed to place in three qualifying matches to get your Distinguished Marksman badge. Someone made the connection between a milking stool and the Distinguished badge (rather obvious, huh?? ), so each qualifying place medal was called a "leg". Later, (about 1960), the "point" system was adopted; the requirements were unified between the services; Distinguished Marksman became Distinguished Rifleman in the Army, and the civilian badges also (since they were made and awarded by the Army). The sea services (Navy, Marine Corps and I think the Coast Guard) retained the title Distinguished Marksman.

Going Distinguished with a suitable M1 is still acheivable. If you can shoot Master class scores (470 or higher) , you can leg out. The cut at Perry this year was 468 or 469 with a handful of X's. The issue is finding someone who can build a competitive M1. The guys I would recommend are getting on in years, but AFAIK, both are still actively building rifles: Don McCoy, San Diego; and Clint Fowler here in Virginia.

"M1: It's real, it's wood and steel!"

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[pmeisel]

I'm jealous. Not of the shooting... I just like that area so much.

[zomby woof]

Garand 273 Rain
Vintage 275
Springfield 280
Carbine 341 Ammo shot high

Had fun did a little worse than last year

[Rooster]

Thank you for the explanation! That makes a lot of sense now.

[Ken O]

Jonk,

It was a fun week. I was ready to come home when the Garand match ended though.

The gods must have been busy smiling on me. I made the Presidents 100 for the first time and won Leg points the next day in the NTI. I am about 1/2 way to Distinguished now. In the CMP Games, I got a gold medal with the Garand, Springfield, and Carbine. Silver with a Swedish Mauser.

I shot on the first Garand relay and got lucky as we shot between rain showers.

I didn't shoot cast in the Mauser. I may try it next year.

John

Great shooting!!
I shot the P100 got a 278 not even close for the cut, shot the NTI had a very bad RP and was about 5 points from a leg. I have 28 points now so all I need is a lousy 2, but my 62 year old eyes are really struggling the last couple years, I might not never leg out. I shot the Hearst doubles and the off-hand went in the toilet. Oh well, I had fun! (and spent a lot of money on commercial row)....

Do I know you John? Ken Orris

[jonk]

Ken,

We may have met. I've been going to Perry for about 6 years now. But the name doesn't ring a bell in particular.

[mroliver77]

I was there too. I dont compete but have a good time at vendors row! I need to practice up and try a couple events.
Jay

[Johnch]

20 min away
And I have had to much to do to even get there to look

As I have been working 6 + days a week for the last several months

And I have today off
And it is 90 something degrees
I have the yard to mow , garden to weed and back sleep to catch up on

John

[c3d4b2]

Then on to Perry. Where, for some reason, the load was shooting about 8" left.

The times I have ran into this situation I had the sling to tight.

Dave