I see a lot of posts extolling the virtues of .35 caliber rifles in both the .358 Win and the .35 Whelan variety. Has anybody made a .35 by simply necking up an 8x57 to 9x57? It would split the difference between the 51 mm case of the .358 and the 63mm case of the .35 Whelan.
I'm not really a rifle guy, but this seems like it would have a lot of virtues. Comments?
The 9 x 57 is an old and well-respected Mauser cartridge. Not too many have made it over here but it was popular in Europe. It's supposed to perform like the 35 Whelen.
From what I've read it was very popular as a camp (meat gun ) gun with the white hunters of old. Olsen's mauser book talks about it.
I've though about buliding one from time to time. There is also a 9.3x57.
It does just about split the difference between the 358 & 35 whelen in the load books I've checked.
Gun control 1ST ROUND ON TARGET.
A good round for sure. Perhaps, just a powder selection to max out either 35-40 (35 remmie) thru 35-60 (06 case). More powder, more velocity for same boolit. I personally shoot for a case size for max velocity just over 2400 fps for the boolit of choice. I seek mid speed rifle powders so tuning can be easy with the many different lots available. ... felix
Last edited by felix; 07-12-2009 at 07:31 PM.
felix
The 358 JDJ is the ballistic twin, though the 375 JDJ is far more common. I doubt theres little more than bore and groove diameter diffeence in their actual performance.
I have the 358 jdj in a 14" contender. It is an awesome round with jacketed OR cast loads. I have taken a few deer with it at ranges beyond 175 yards.
Why mess with a good thing? 8mm bullets in the same weight as .35 have a higher BC and have lower pressures than 30 caliber bullets when driven to the same speed. 8 x 57 got a bad rap when under loaded by commercial manufacturers on the off chance that someone might load one in the older .318 bore instead of the newer .323 bores. Most commercial loads in the US barely exceed 30-30 performance. Handloads with bullets heavier than 180 grain are real killers. I load 195 grain Hornadys and they are the bomb. (Bear in mind that this sentiment comes from a guy who loads .223 cases with 6mm bullets of the same weight.) RD
“A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.”
Thomas Jefferson – Author of the Declaration of Independence and 3rd President of the USA
I chronyed some S&B 8x57 loads one hot summer day about 5 years ago. Had a 195 bullet IIRC. Velocity was right at 2,600 fps.
Sure beats the heck out of American 8x57.
I'm building a repro of an early Mauser sporter (side panels, double set triggers,etc.) and am sitting here unable to decide between 7,8or9x57 for caliber. I want them all. A takedown or swap-barrel arrangement using all three would be the tits but the budget won't allow for it. The 9x57 is the only one of the three I never played with so I'm slightly leaning in favor of it.
A .358x57 would be a more practical choice over the standard 9x57 I suppose given the .003" difference in bullet diameters. Anybody here use a 9mm by sizing down .358 bullets? I'm assuming they typically drop from the mould a couple of thousandths over .358, combined with a further sizing down to .355-.356 would make for a lot of squeezing and other bad ju-ju that could effect the accuracy potential of the bullet. I kind of hate sizing a lead bullet that much in the .30 calibers. Is it a valid concern up in this size range? (40 years of casting experience and I never cast for rifles bigger than .30 cal.) Probably should have started a new thread, but this one was here.
Originally Posted by gnoahhh
The answer is that it depends on you and the gun. Like that is news. But the transition from smaller bores CAN cause you to redefine many things. Somewhere in the 8 to 9 MM area and up, you leave the confines of what has been accepted as the lead target realm by a lot of folks.
It's just not the gun or the bore diameter. 30 men seem to have the most ..... difficulty with the transition. I was one. Personally, I think it is an ego blow that the 30 isn't really a medium or big bore unless using full power jacketed. Lead redefines this transition up.
So it's really is going to be answered by you. If you define accuracy as a 10 shot group kind of approach to load development, you probably are going to reconsider your outlook or not care for the gun / bore diameter. Might determine how heavy you want to build your gun which far too many consider too lightly.
But to answer your question, I have no problems as my bullets normally drop in the .361 range from my molds and when they exit the bore, they are .355 to 358 depending on the gun. The 35 bore makes it seem like I know what I am doing anyway.
Reading can provide limited education because only shooting provides YOUR answers as you tie everything together for THAT gun. The better the gun, the less you have to know / do & the more flexibility you have to achieve success.
Another idea I have read about is a long necked .358 WCF that is based on 57mm case length. The 9X57 Americanized would be excellent.
Terrier
Never Forget and Never Forgive
There are quite a few stalking rifles out there now in 9.3x57 (three of them at Cabelas in St. Louis, MO.). A 0.366" 286 gr. bullet at a little over 2000 fps. Easily attainable with lead and a powerhouse on game, especially if you paper patch up an as cast 35 caliber heavy boolit.
Boolit selection.
I can't remember who but, someone within the last year posted of cutting a .35 Whelen die to resize 57MM brass to .358 caliber. Sounded like a great idea to me!
JDL
Bret nailed it. The virtues as I see them would be easy conversion for existing 8x57 Mauser actions without a lot of mods to make rounds feed properly and bullet selection in an American caliber (.358). Nothing wrong w/8mm (.323), 9mm (.355) or 9.3 (.366) bore but lots more cast bullet designs available in .358, including some pistol bullets for light loads. I have .358 molds ranging from 110 grs to 200 grs.
I bet an 8x57 reamer with an interchangeable pilot would do trick.
I had a 9.3x57. It was a neat gun and a fun cartridge to load and shoot, but bullet selection was small and expensive and moulds had to be custom made. I sold it and used the money to rebarrell a remington 600 to 358. Moulds are plentifull, jacketed bullets are more reasonably priced and lots of options. 308 brass is everywhere to use. Theres enough power there to do everything I want to do.
One round ya'll have missed is the 8 m/m-06. With a 200+ gr boolit makes a very good killer on most any game in this contry.
7/8 m/m & the 308/30-06 famly share a .473 bolt face. Makes rebarreling very easy, as i'm sure most of you all know. I've bulit a .260 on a santa bararba action & a 35 whelen on a 1909 argi that someone had punched the factory bbl out to 30-06. Had I known about cast boolits before, I might just have made a 31-06 with all the good moulds that are out there. Live & learn.
Gun control 1ST ROUND ON TARGET.
Bret. I forgot for a moment that I'm on the cast boolit board. There are a heck of a lot more J word bullets out there now than there was a couple of years ago due to the .325 WSM. But when counting cast don't forget some of the .321 boolits designed for the .32 Win. Special. My intent is to try paper patching a 321298 for 8mm use. There are about 18 bullets on the Lyman chart in .321 or .323. All the way from 75 grain to 243 grain. I imagine Saeco or Lee must have some too. One or more are sure to fill the bill. There might be arguements against the 8mm but with all respect I don't think bullet selection is one of them. RD
“A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.”
Thomas Jefferson – Author of the Declaration of Independence and 3rd President of the USA
The Lyman chart may show 18 cuts, but finding more than 2 or 3 will be a problem. Everyone and his brother wants the 323378, me included. Best of luck finding them.
In truth, the 8mm Karibiner is a better boolit than the Lyman and is far more available. If you don't have one, hie thee to Midsouth and order one! Verily, I say unto you, you 'll love it!
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