Lee R.E.A.L.bullet mould

[54bore]

A friend went to Montana to hunt elk with his .54 and had a difficult time getting decent accuracy with any consistency with a REAL in his, until he hit upon the idea of cloth-patching the base driving band. He said suddenly he could do no wrong with it. Apparently they were getting some leakage and gas cutting on their way up the bore which was playing hob with accuracy, but the cloth patch fixed it. I had given up on them in my .50 cal 1:56 twist for the same reason, but I tried patching them like he did and the improvement was dramatic. It's kind of tedious to do in the field, so I made a bullet board out of delrin to have some ready to load when hunting. I was thinking, one made of stiff rubber like that stuff they advertise on TV to seal leaks and coat tool handles might accommodate the tapered driving bands more easily and keep the patch in place better that delrin.

A wool felt over powder Wad should do the exact same thing, and be way easier to do

[rodwha]

Without a wad my first shot at 50 yds keyholed and was about a foot left and several inches low. With a wad the next two were nearly touching and just below the bull. I bought the mold (320 grn) after I saw that.

[FergusonTO35]

Ooh, gonna have to try this! So, just a standard felt wad? I would think you could glue it to the base of the boolit for convenience.

[rodwha]

Yes. A simple hard felt wad. I buy from Durofelt and punch my own. They need to be no less than the diameter of the grooves to properly seal the bore. Mine are a bit over but I don't recall by home much. I had a retired machinist make mine (he makes them to order in any diameter you may want). Very simple but good, and cheap ($10 + shipping). He makes other things as well.

Do not glue them to your conical. That would interfere with accuracy

[jlkehoe3]

How would I contact this machinist to make me some punches?

[rodwha]

He's a member of a traditional muzzleloader forum:

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/

His name there is Ohioramrod.

Or I can get his email address for you. That forum is a great forum but it is dedicated solely to traditional means, with few exceptions. I've learned far more there, but it also has some fairly grumpy old guys too.

[Jugband]

My .50cal Hawken wannabe loves them!
I found the load data that Lee provides is good for at least 100yds. There is slush in the data. Start at the bottom and work up. For my .50, it calls for 20gns to start. I started at 60gns.

I'm looking for the complete loading data for the .50Cal 320gr REAL bullet using genuine black powder. I've misplaced the paperwork that came with the mold, but I seem to recall it including load data for genuine BP in FFg and FFFg both.

BTW, Lee is recommending their Lee Liquid Alox tumble-lube for these bullets. It coats the bullet, and after it's dried, won't contaminate powder or be messy in any way.

I haven't tried it on THESE bullets specifically, but in casting for smokeless cartridges, I can say that it's pretty great stuff that does everything they claim it does.

You just put a batch of bullets (I do about 50) in a small plastic food-storage bowl (never used for storing food again after that), pour in some liquid Alox, swirl them around, then lay out on waxed paper overnight to dry. Produces a varnish-like coating, without a bunch of handling-mess.

Lee claims that one bottle does "nearly 3,000" bullets, but I've never counted and I assume "nearly" depends on your definition of "Nearly". It's looking like the only bottle I've owned will probably max out at a little over 2,000. I tend to put too much of nearly everything like that on almost everything, though.

[54bore]

Jugband, i dont have anything from Lee themselves on the R.E.A.L. Bullet, but i can give you load data from my TC manual, and my Lyman 2nd edition blackpowder loading manual, For .50 Cal with a bullet between 275-320 grains My TC manual shows a starting charge of 80 Grains, and a Maximum load of 110 grains using 2F black Powder. My Lyman manual does not list a 320 grain bullet, the lightest conical they list is 350 Grains, For a 350 Grain bullet using 2F blackpowder the Lyman manual shows a starting load of 40 Grains, and a Max charge of 120 Grains.
Unless you have a REALLY long barrel (40"), i doubt your rifle will burn (utilize) anything over 90 grains. My dad and i shot together a month or so ago with a lot of snow on the ground, my dad's load has always been 100 Grains of Goex 2F powder in his 54 Cal with a 430 grain Maxi Ball, he shot a total of 6 shots, it looked like pepper sprinkled on top of the snow from the un burned powder, there was a fair amount of it in a trail for 10-15 yards long, I wish i had of payed attention and looked at the snow after his first shot, not that i guess it would have mattered since there were no way to measure the unburned powder. Anyway, we came up with a rough guesstimate that he is throwing away roughly 10 grains a shot, maybe even 20? His rifle (TC Renegade) is DEFINITELY NOT burning the full 100 grains. He and i are gonna try 3F Swiss powder next, 70 grains, 80 TOPS. This spring/summer i plan to do a lot of testing using my chronograph

[Good Cheer]

A friend went to Montana to hunt elk with his .54 and had a difficult time getting decent accuracy with any consistency with a REAL in his, until he hit upon the idea of cloth-patching the base driving band. He said suddenly he could do no wrong with it. Apparently they were getting some leakage and gas cutting on their way up the bore which was playing hob with accuracy, but the cloth patch fixed it. I had given up on them in my .50 cal 1:56 twist for the same reason, but I tried patching them like he did and the improvement was dramatic. It's kind of tedious to do in the field, so I made a bullet board out of delrin to have some ready to load when hunting. I was thinking, one made of stiff rubber like that stuff they advertise on TV to seal leaks and coat tool handles might accommodate the tapered driving bands more easily and keep the patch in place better that delrin.

When I tried patching the base band on REAL's it was in a .58 way too big for the mold.
I seated the base band and then trimmed the patch by cutting it in the groove with a patch knife.
But, the rifle bore is narrow grooves, just too big for the boolit to expand into the rifling.

[Good Cheer]

He's a member of a traditional muzzleloader forum:

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/

His name there is Ohioramrod.

Or I can get his email address for you. That forum is a great forum but it is dedicated solely to traditional means, with few exceptions. I've learned far more there, but it also has some fairly grumpy old guys too.

Who's grumpy yah dadgum whipper snapper!

[54bore]

When I tried patching the base band on REAL's it was in a .58 way too big for the mold.
I seated the base band and then trimmed the patch by cutting it in the groove with a patch knife.
But, the rifle bore is narrow grooves, just too big for the boolit to expand into the rifling.

Size that band off and patch that sucker up!!

[Omnivore]

A friend went to Montana to hunt elk with his .54 and had a difficult time getting decent accuracy with any consistency with a REAL in his, until he hit upon the idea of cloth-patching the base driving band. He said suddenly he could do no wrong with it. Apparently they were getting some leakage and gas cutting on their way up the bore which was playing hob with accuracy, but the cloth patch fixed it. I had given up on them in my .50 cal 1:56 twist for the same reason, but I tried patching them like he did and the improvement was dramatic.

I mean no disrespect, but these kinds of reports are at the same time, a) very common, and b) worthless.

For example; I've gotten truly amazing accuracy with the 250 grain, 50 cal REAL in my 48" twist Lyman Deerstalker using 90 grains of Goex 2F and felt wad, the bullet lubed with deer tallow. All holes touching.

OK; what critical piece of information did I just leave out there? Hmm? If you said "the distance" then step to the head of the class. "Amazing accuracy" or "all holes touching means zip, zero, nada, unless we know HOW FAR the target was from the shooter. Extra points if you noticed that I didn't tell you HOW MANY shots were all touching (two, or even three, on one occasion, could be a fluke). My cloverleaf groups were at fifty yards. The number of groups fired don't matter in this case, because it's worthless load for me so far-- At 100 yards I couldn't hit the 24" square target board with more than one shot out of three. My old stand-by patched ball load does far, far better at 100 yards.

SO when we're discussing loads that really, really "work" we aren't giving anyone useful information unless we provide;
1. The caliber
2. The bullet weight and type (several on this thread have already said "THE REAL" when there are two weights in the stated caliber.
2. The type of powder
3. The granulation of powder
4. The charge weight (or volume equivalent if it's a sub)
5. The lube
6. The distance to the target
7. The number of shots in your group
8. The group size (the standard is center-to-center)
9. Anything else about the gun, the load, etc. which I may have left out, such that anyone could *exactly* duplicate your results.

I've had to ask several times for clarification on loads without ever getting the full answer. It's like pulling teeth except that it takes longer.

Otherwise these discussions are like the hundreds of gun "reviews" I've seen which end with; "I can't wait to get it out to the range and do some shooting!!!" In other words, worthless.

Regarding the temperature at casting; If the sprue puddle freezes up in the first two or three seconds after pouring, either your mold or your pot temp is too low. Maybe both. If things are running at the right temp, the sprue puddle will take at least six or seven seconds to freeze up. Eight or nine seconds is still good. That's a general statement, and will depend on factors such as mold block size, cavity size, and ambient temp, but I've found that all my best bullets come out of that "puddle freeze time" (shall we call it "PFT"?) range.

Also; Accurate Molds has some designs in the catalog that are very similar to the Lee REAL, only you specify your own drive band diameters upon ordering. That may come in handy for some folks.

Thank you for putting up with my rant (but seriously)(and for gun reviews, check out the NRA standards. Not one of you have ever once done a review that's up to the basic NRA standards - I bet you a hundred dollars - "average of five, five-shot groups" is just one of them, and that's 25 shots right there...now do that with five different loads)

Carry on.

[FergusonTO35]

Regarding the temperature at casting; If the sprue puddle freezes up in the first two or three seconds after pouring, either your mold or your pot temp is too low. Maybe both. If things are running at the right temp, the sprue puddle will take at least six or seven seconds to freeze up. Eight or nine seconds is still good. That's a general statement, and will depend on factors such as mold block size, cavity size, and ambient temp, but I've found that all my best bullets come out of that "puddle freeze time" (shall we call it "PFT"?) range.

This, 100%. All my molds, regardless of maker, produce the best boolits when the sprue puddle is still "bubbly" when you stop pouring.

[PtMD989]

I'm looking for the complete loading data for the .50Cal 320gr REAL bullet using genuine black powder. I've misplaced the paperwork that came with the mold, but I seem to recall it including load data for genuine BP in FFg and FFFg both.

BTW, Lee is recommending their Lee Liquid Alox tumble-lube for these bullets. It coats the bullet, and after it's dried, won't contaminate powder or be messy in any way.

I haven't tried it on THESE bullets specifically, but in casting for smokeless cartridges, I can say that it's pretty great stuff that does everything they claim it does.

You just put a batch of bullets (I do about 50) in a small plastic food-storage bowl (never used for storing food again after that), pour in some liquid Alox, swirl them around, then lay out on waxed paper overnight to dry. Produces a varnish-like coating, without a bunch of handling-mess.

Lee claims that one bottle does "nearly 3,000" bullets, but I've never counted and I assume "nearly" depends on your definition of "Nearly". It's looking like the only bottle I've owned will probably max out at a little over 2,000. I tend to put too much of nearly everything like that on almost everything, though.

Is this what your needing



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[1988-4551]

This, 100%. All my molds, regardless of maker, produce the best boolits when the sprue puddle is still "bubbly" when you stop pouring.

What do you mean by bubbly? I'm running about four or five seconds before I cut the sprite so it sounded like I'm running a bit cold. Bullets are a touch wrinkled but figured but figured it was just because it was pure lead?

[mooman76]

I was kind of wondering what he mean't by "bubbly". I been casting allot of years and don't recall anything resembling bubbly. The REAL usually needs to be run pretty hot toherwise the bands bon't fill out so well. If they don't fill out well, the accuracy drops off.

[rodwha]

My Lee pot is set at the highest setting and I noticed on my recent casting the other day that it takes about 5-6 seconds for it to solidify.

I figured he meant liquidy or runny.

[PtMD989]

My first casting session I was playing with new equipment. I was cutting the sprues at about 5-6 seconds at first then at about 10-15 seconds. About half of my boolits didn't make the the quality I was looking for. Still learning here.


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[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

the trick is not to try and push them to hard work up when you find accuracy 320gr is moving fast enough to go through a deer almost length wise.

[bigted]

What do you mean by bubbly? I'm running about four or five seconds before I cut the sprite so it sounded like I'm running a bit cold. Bullets are a touch wrinkled but figured but figured it was just because it was pure lead?

If you have wrinkles ... Both your lead and the mold are too cold. I run em hot hot ... Just below frosting them.