Problems with hornady dies

[StarMetal]

Have any of you rocket scientists bothered to measure the ID of the sliding sleeve when you get the die. They are designed for JACKETED BULLETS thus the ID diameter is just slightly over that. Your cast boolits are 0.001+ larger than what the die can handle and any lube also causes drag. It works on the flimsy spring wire clip end too much. The first thing I do is open the ID to 0.001 to 0.002" over my cast boolit ID and then straighten out the clip end that protrudes through the die body. Problem solved. Even for jacket only use I measure first and adjust if needed.

But Bruce, that sleeve is just a pilot, it only presses on the nose of the bullet. It's not "sizing" the bullet down. One more thing, Hornady knows that in pistol/revolver dies the purchaser may use both jacketed and cast.

Joe

[parrott1969]

Babore, I my rocket scientist opinion, If you manufacture a die it should work for all bullets. If it does not then you should post a disclaimer. Also in my rocket scientist opinion, there are a lot of you internet ramboo's out there! Where I come from we treat people with respect and whenever we are attacked be someone of you nature ( all mouth and no ass) we put them over our knee and give you the spanking that your daddy should have. You have a nice day sir and by all means you might want to consider staying out of the south. I believe going south of the masion-dixion line would be bad for your health.

[45 2.1]

I believe going south of the masion-dixion line would be bad for your health.

Ya'll sure of where ya come from............. Taint spelt that there way atall. And your a victim of Michigan humor also.

[StarMetal]

There is no Mason-Dixon line anymore, dis hare the U nited States of American....ya'll one people now. It's the politics that are divided.

Joe

[BABore]

That sleeve is also a pilot to align the bullet. The bullet does slide a ways into it. I started checking the ID after I noticed that some boolits with a full diameter front band were getting stuck. When I mic'd the boolit I found that the nose was getting sized down some. Measureing the sleeve ID told me why.

Parrott1969:

My comments were not necessarily aimed at you alone, but most everybody. Twenty some posts of people bi-itching about the Hornady dies and yet nobody seemed to bother finding out why. How come some were cracking a simple sliding sleeve, or yanking it out. Ya think maybe it was being used as a thin, unsupported sizing die. Don't blame the manufacturer for a well made die that properly aligns a jacketed bullet ,for nice straight seating. You want sloppy, buy Lee. Most all dies are designed for jacketed bullets. Common knowledge. RCBS Cowboy dies are one of the few off-the-shelf exceptions to this and they are advertised as such. The other aren't and never have been listed as "for cast boolits too". Alot of them are sloppy enough to also handle larger cast boolits at the price of good jacketed bullet alignment. The same thing goes for the expander ball of stock dies. They are not designed for cast boolits and are commonly too small. If 40-50% of all reloaders used cast boolits, then maybe die manufacturers would be more apt to offer cast friendly dies. Until that time, it is what it is, and you have to deal with it using some common sense.

[StarMetal]

That sleeve is also a pilot to align the bullet. The bullet does slide a ways into it. I started checking the ID after I noticed that some boolits with a full diameter front band were getting stuck. When I mic'd the boolit I found that the nose was getting sized down some. Measureing the sleeve ID told me why.

Parrott1969:

My comments were not necessarily aimed at you alone, but most everybody. Twenty some posts of people bi-itching about the Hornady dies and yet nobody seemed to bother finding out why. How come some were cracking a simple sliding sleeve, or yanking it out. Ya think maybe it was being used as a thin, unsupported sizing die. Don't blame the manufacturer for a well made die that properly aligns a jacketed bullet ,for nice straight seating. You want sloppy, buy Lee. Most all dies are designed for jacketed bullets. Common knowledge. RCBS Cowboy dies are one of the few off-the-shelf exceptions to this and they are advertised as such. The other aren't and never have been listed as "for cast boolits too". Alot of them are sloppy enough to also handle larger cast boolits at the price of good jacketed bullet alignment. The same thing goes for the expander ball of stock dies. They are not designed for cast boolits and are commonly too small. If 40-50% of all reloaders used cast boolits, then maybe die manufacturers would be more apt to offer cast friendly dies. Until that time, it is what it is, and you have to deal with it using some common sense.

Bruce,

You're correct, but notice I didn't run Hornady down, I said I will still buy from them and mentioned the things I liked about their dies. You get lemons from all them one time or another. On my particular problem I was loading .452 cast and that is right in line with the size of jacketed. I don't know why that sleeve cracked, but can guess. That sleeve also serves to roll crimp, which I do. Perhaps it was just much for the thin sleeve. Hornady, by the way, replaced it free of charge with no hassle...AND knew of the problem with that particular sleeve (it's numbered and they asked what number it was).

Joe
Hey that video you sent me the older day on the ***bra was hilarious.

[Cowboy5780]

Ive had great service from all my Hornady dies. However ive also bought my last ones too. I sent in for my free box of j word bullets from the last set of dies i bought and got a polite letter from them telling me that due to the great demand i would get my free bullets when they got all there orders from commercial customers filled. Done me in right there its not the box of bullets i'll just cast a few more but principle goes a long way. If anyone wants a pm of the email from them just send me a pm and ill fwd it to you.

[parrott1969]

Cowboy, I have to take hornady's side on that one. First and formost the are a bussiness and their only function is to make a profit. Before they can give something away they have to be able to satisify their primary customers. And yes we are their target market, but in order to get their products to the target market they have to sell to the wholesalers. Also, remember that the demand for firearms related goods are through the roof. So please give them a break. I recieved my 1000 9mm bullets this week, but my .357 110 grain xtp have been sent in for 3 months. They will get here whenever things settle down. IMHO it's like bullets in the bank. lol

[parrott1969]

Babore, if dies are only designed for copper jacketed bullets then why does Hornady sent a seater plug for wadcutters/semi wad cutters. You know the one that is flat across the end and solid. Oh yeah this rocketer has quote for ya "Note: As with all seating dies, when seating lubricated lead bullets, lubricant wil build up within the die causing variations in seating. Clean and inspect as needed." Comes straight from Hornady's instruction manual that is included with all their dies. Now why in the world would they put something like that in the instruction manual? Don't they realize that their dies are not designed for use with lead bullets. Crap they need to use some common sense!

[Cowboy5780]

Lol parrott i guess you're right anyways im gonna just stick them in the cabinet anyways its just sticks in my craw that they wanted my money for the dies, now they owe me its a different tale.

[parrott1969]

Brother, I feel your pain. I am like a kid in a candy store. I want it and i want it now. lol. I have to do a lot of praying to keep myself in check. Oh, and did i mention my worst half is always looking over my shoulder makeing sure i tay on the straight and narrow,

[JesterGrin_1]

For the most part the die's that are made by the major manufacturers will handle Cast as well as Jacketed Bullets just fine. The only real problems you will run into is when you start to use oversize cast BOOLITS in them. In other words Cast Boolits the same size as Jacketed Bullets. I will bring just one up the Hornady HPXTP 240Gr is .430 and thus many need or should say wish to have .OO1 over so the same Die set will handle both most of the time. The problem is that when you start to go larger say .432 to .433 things can get very tight and may cause problems.

Also when you start to get Larger BOOLITS again say .432 and up the Inside the neck size die might be too small. Not to say it will not work as my RCBS Set for the .44 Mag works just fine but I have found in other sets like LEE they will tend to resize the boolit when the factory crimp die is used.

This is why at times I mix my reloading die's. For my .44 Mag I use the RCBS Size Die next is a Lee Inside size die with the ability to use my LEE Pro Disc Powder Measure and then two RCBS bullet seating Die's one is to seat the BOOLIT and the other to crimp.

But I am also going to set up my .357 Mag and my 45-70 the same way. As I like to seat the BOOLIT and crimp separately. I find I have a bit more control this way.


As for Die sets that are made for Cast such as the RCBS Die's I have only handled one set and that was for the 45-70 and measured them side by side with the standard RCBS Dies for my 45-70 and I could not find any real difference between the two sets and returned the 45-70 cowboy dies.

There are just sooooooooooo many things to learn and I have to say I am still learning all of the things that go with reloading.

[Heavy lead]

I guess everyone has their favorite dies, for one Hornady are mine for rifle cartridges. Now I load very little cast for rifle, but I like both there sizers and the seaters are the best in the business in a REGULARLY NON PREMIUM PRICED die set IMO. I have had the clip on occasion give me fits, and I've modified them slightly to work and sprung them a little to make them work too. As far as pistol dies, like Lee the best, and yes I run Lee in two LNL progressives and they do fit, not with much to spare but they do.
As far as the LNL and powder measure, they are wonderful, accurate, simply an awesome machine for the money.

Parrott, be glad you didn't buy a loadmaster.

BABore, I like your humor.

Sincerely,

Rocket Scientist Boolit Fabricator

[MtGun44]

Seating the bullet straight is a key part of high accuracy jacketed loads. Redding and
Forster/Bonanza have had floating sleeve seaters for their "benchrest" die sets, and for
calibers that I load for highest accy, I have purchased either a Redding or Forster seater
die at great expense to get the jacketed bullet runout to the minimum level for best possible
accy. This requires the sleeve to be a very close fit on the jacketed bullet, which calls for
high precision machining and careful polishing.

NOW - for lead boolits which are typically .002 to .003 larger than the std jacketed bullet
in a particular caliber, and by the way, slathered various kinds of sticky goop, and we jam this
into your beautifully made precision sleeve. Guess what -- it will stick in the sleeve and
goop it up even if it doesn't stick by some miracle.

Hornady has started using these precision sleeve seaters as standard, which for the
great (overwhelming?) majority of their customers who only load jacketed bullets, works
perfectly and produces higher quality, more accurate ammo. Basically, you get a benchrest
seater as std at a far lower price than the benchrest die sets.

So - if you only want to load cast boolits, maybe Hornady rifle dies aren't the best choice
for you, esp if you don't want to clean them as they require.

Nowdays, I always assume that it is the nut behind the loading handle ( ME! ) that is causing the
screwup when I have problems with my loading gear, not the equipment and that is
usually the case for me. I try to figure out what I am doing wrong, rarely assuming that
the equipment is junk or the maker is a lowlife trying to rip me off, esp from the big
name makers who, in previous experience have produced 99% great tools. Certainly,
every single company WILL make a bad part occasionally. Then you get to find out if
their customer service is good or not. Most in the shooting industry have outstanding
customer service. Getting mad at the tool was my old approach. I finally figured out it
didn't turn out to be the case most of the time.

Strangely enough, computer programming is what finally beat into my thick skull that
"I" was most likely the problem and forced a somewhat painful attitude adjustment
that also seems to apply elsewhere, too. Took me a long time to figure this out, but
sometimes I'm kinda thick headed.

Do what you want. It is still a free country, but Obama has recognized that as a problem
and they are working on it.

Bill

[Lloyd Smale]

I can pick apart the dies from about any manufacuture. I still kind of like hornadys for progressive loading. They bell the approach to the sizer better then most. I like rcbs dies but theres are the pits in this reguard and i cant stand there rifle seating dies. Lee are decent dies and i like there decapping pin setup but they dont make a small based die for rifles. What works best? if i could pick a set of dies it would probably be a hodgepodge. A hornady sizer rcbs flaring die and a lee seating die.

[bohokii]

ive never had a problem with mine but i only have hornady in 30 carbine and only load fmjs in that

[dave 45-90]

Interesting comments...I started years ago w/Hornady..however warranty issues led me to Dillion Presses and Wilson hand dies. Bullet run out was always an issue for me w/Hornady Dies. Dillons dies can't be beat for design and simplicity...I load alot of 45 cast for my Thompson Sub Mach. and have 0 issues...

[hugh]

Sorry you had so much trouble .I Got a case stuck in 223 .die my fault .managed to drill and pull out . in process lost expander ball some how .gave them a call .they replaced for free .it
made my day how well I was treated .they where switching out phone service at the time.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive recently aquired 3 lock and load progressives and a single stage lock and load and because of some teathing pains ive broke a few parts and lost one. All totaly my fault and hornady has been great about replacing them. I use dillon stuff to and have had many dillon presses in the past and id have to say both companys are about equal in the warantee dept.

[StarMetal]

Seating the bullet straight is a key part of high accuracy jacketed loads. Redding and
Forster/Bonanza have had floating sleeve seaters for their "benchrest" die sets, and for
calibers that I load for highest accy, I have purchased either a Redding or Forster seater
die at great expense to get the jacketed bullet runout to the minimum level for best possible
accy. This requires the sleeve to be a very close fit on the jacketed bullet, which calls for
high precision machining and careful polishing.

NOW - for lead boolits which are typically .002 to .003 larger than the std jacketed bullet
in a particular caliber, and by the way, slathered various kinds of sticky goop, and we jam this
into your beautifully made precision sleeve. Guess what -- it will stick in the sleeve and
goop it up even if it doesn't stick by some miracle.

Hornady has started using these precision sleeve seaters as standard, which for the
great (overwhelming?) majority of their customers who only load jacketed bullets, works
perfectly and produces higher quality, more accurate ammo. Basically, you get a benchrest
seater as std at a far lower price than the benchrest die sets.

So - if you only want to load cast boolits, maybe Hornady rifle dies aren't the best choice
for you, esp if you don't want to clean them as they require.

Nowdays, I always assume that it is the nut behind the loading handle ( ME! ) that is causing the
screwup when I have problems with my loading gear, not the equipment and that is
usually the case for me. I try to figure out what I am doing wrong, rarely assuming that
the equipment is junk or the maker is a lowlife trying to rip me off, esp from the big
name makers who, in previous experience have produced 99% great tools. Certainly,
every single company WILL make a bad part occasionally. Then you get to find out if
their customer service is good or not. Most in the shooting industry have outstanding
customer service. Getting mad at the tool was my old approach. I finally figured out it
didn't turn out to be the case most of the time.

Strangely enough, computer programming is what finally beat into my thick skull that
"I" was most likely the problem and forced a somewhat painful attitude adjustment
that also seems to apply elsewhere, too. Took me a long time to figure this out, but
sometimes I'm kinda thick headed.

Do what you want. It is still a free country, but Obama has recognized that as a problem
and they are working on it.

Bill

I think this post nailed it on the head the most...well along with Lloyd's "I can pick any manufacturer's dies apart" is true too. I'm baffled by the poster that gave up Hornady dies and went to a Dillion press and Wilson hand dies, but yet goes on to say the Dillion dies are design there can be.

Joe