Replacing bunged nipple??

[10 ga]

Was gifted a Cabelas traditional .50 ML. Owner cleaned an put away about 15 years ago. Now the bore is OK but the nipple was frozen in and x@%&*M@!F gunsmith really messed up threads removing it. It only catches by about 1.5 turns and is loose. Is it feasable to ream out and put a 5/16 X 28 nipple in? That is about 1/16 larger then the existing threading. Has anyone done this before? Or better to cut the "rams horn" off and install a drum and nipple? With the bore being OK seems this would be better than 2.5Cs + for a Green Mountain barrel. Any experiences positive or negative along this line? 10ga

[docone31]

I do not see any reason you cannot cut new threads.
IF you do, pick a common nipple thread.
The original size is 6 X 75.
It really should not be that hard to recut threads, there is plenty of room, and strength.

[mazo kid]

That should work, just make sure that the new tap drill takes out all the old threads. Do they make nipples in 5/16-28 thread size? How about 5/16-24?

[docone31]

A musket nipple should definately give positive ignition!

[badgeredd]

That should work, just make sure that the new tap drill takes out all the old threads. Do they make nipples in 5/16-28 thread size? How about 5/16-24?

Yes....check Track of the Wolf as they have several sizes and thread pitches. A musket nipple would give you very positive ignition.

Edd

I just went over to Track of the Wolf's website because I thought I saw something else there that may help you out. They also have over size 1/4-28 nipples up to .035 oversize.

[Geraldo]

Here's the options I see:

-As mentioned, tap it for a larger threaded nipple, which is probably the cheapest and easiest.

-When GM improperly threaded a number of barrels, they used helicoils as a fix for nipple threads. It doesn't bother me, but some people see it as a danger. YMMV.

-Rather than just cut off the ram's horn, I would just get someone competent to replace the entire breachplug and put in a drum. Depending on the breech design on the Cabelas Hawken, this might be the best way to go even though it's the most expensive.

[docone31]

That is a real no fly with the Cabelas Hawken Wannabe! It is an hooked breech. That would recquire replaceing the entire breech assembly, plus the lock.
There is no reason an helicoil will not work, or rethreading. There is just not that much pressure on the threads of the nipple where an helicoil will fail. Unless it is improperly installed.
I just trimmed the nipple on my Wannabe. There is a lot of room there. Lots of metal. The cleanout screw also can be enlarged. I find the cleanout screw easy to loose. I am looking into going 10/32 for that one. That breech has lots of room for repairs.
The main thing is matching the impact line of the hammer with the nipple. No biggee, but it is important for good ignition.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

The breech plug is likely stronger (with a well done nipple seat) than any drum and nipple you could have installed. Check with Mr Whitacre (at the N-SSA.org site, vendor links), as I know he does this kind of work for our ham-handed brothers who mess these thing up. He does first class work and can fully advise you. BvT

[northmn]

They make nipples of various sizes for that kind of problem. Replacing the whle thing might be overkill. 5/16 NF thread nipples used to be availiable to take #11 caps. First I would try the 1/4 OS. while I have not seen the thing another possible option might be to sleeve the thing.

Northmn

[405]

docone1, I assume you meant to say, "have to replace the hooked breech plug and the tang ... not the lock? Anyway yah, it'd be easiest to get a matched pair... both the plug and tang for the patent breech system. A "generic" hooked breech could be fitted to the existing tang but may be a PITB or wouldn't work right if mis-matched... and for sure, as stated, if too far out of kilter... a real pain to adjust the hammer/nipple alignment..... all unknown.

If it's a 6 X ? metric I'd think by far the best route would be to "skin out" the buggered threads then tap for the next larger sized nipple. If Track has the over-sized stuff that would be worth looking into for certain. The over-sized 1/4 X 28 may just be large enough to allow for that, dunno?

Never done it (knock on wood!) but stripping out the bolster nipple threads gotta feel about like stripping out the spark plug threads in an engine (don't ask me how I know)

[docone31]

405, if you change the breech, and tang, you will have to change the lock also!
I tried it years ago. I wanted a real, for sure Hawken and the closest I could come was to swap out the barrel, get a patent tang/breech. Then I tried to make the lock fit!
I had to change to a Siler lock to work with the patent breech!
The InvestArms lock is slightly off in angle. Nothing I did made it even come close. The hammer was always off.
With the stripped off threads, the best way is an Helicoil. If that doesn't work, then go the next largest threads.
With my furly-surly Hawken project, it would have been cheaper to have just built one from scratch! The lines of the Cabelas is off. It is more like a modern rifle.
Useing the Hawken Shop Conversion Kit does help some. The all steel furniture really makes the Wannabe look, and feel great! It is a bit of work, but other than that, and the barrel being a single tenon/wedge, it really makes a difference.
I had wanted to get one in brass for my new Wannabe. I will stick with a toe plate, and pouring pewter for the nosecap.
That little lock on the Wannabe, makes for some interesting geometry with a new patent breech.

[waksupi]

I'd go with the oversized nipples that are available. Easy fix.

At least you found out not to take any other firearms to that "gunsmith"!

[405]

docone31, I gotcha. Just having trouble visualizing not being able to grind/file either the lock plate cutout or the breech (split snail as in the patent system) to make them go together in some fashion. Agreed, at some point it can become easier to re-do the whole thing. I know getting the hammer re-aligned can be a trial... especially if it's one of those super hardened cast jobbies. That's not even accounting for the forward-rearward dimension.

[docone31]

I have made a few. One from scratch. Others from inletted "kits".
That Wannabe lock and the resulting inlet was different than the others.
The set trigger and the lock are different than conventional. To get the hammer to line up realistically, there was a gap just above the lock plate top. The Hardened hammer could not be bent. No way!.
With his, either Helicoil, or retap. I am not sure, retapping the Wannabe with a musket cap will work either. After thinking about it, the hammer angle might not allow for the slight extra height of the musket nipple.
Go American threads and ALWAYS use a nipple wrench! Using a box wrench is usually the culprit for damaged nipple sockets. You do not even need a gunsmith for that. Get the corresponding drill for the tap. Go slow.

[nicholst55]

Give Track a call and ask them what they'd recommend for a new nipple. They have a gunsmith shop on site, and they will go through their stock to give you the best solution! Great folks!

[R.M.]

Are you sure that the new nipple is the correct thread size? If the old one is 1/4" and the replacement is 6mm, it will feel sloppy.
Something else to consider.