Correct method of stuffing cotton etc in cases.

[barrabruce]

Silly dumb newbie question

It has been mentioned quite a bit here about stuffing cotton balls ,pillow dacron toilet paper etc here in case using reduced loads of powder in cases.

Whats the correct way to go about it and what is the game plan or should I say what should I be aiming for???

How do you get a fluffy bit of coton rammed in there with out it forming a little plug at the bottom of the case? Roll it in to a sausage?
tesase hiary little wads off and poke ever so gentley with a thin bit of wire etc??

Don't won't to blow myself up or ring the bore....which leads me to another queston. I haven't found an explaination to why this occurrs or what factors are present to make this occurr.

I know its a bit hard to cut a case in half and see if youv'e done it right cos the powder goes everywhere when you load it.

Thanks
Bruce

[Nrut]

Hello Bruce..
I asked that same question awhile back..See post 15 in the link below for the answer..
Ironically the answer came from another Bruce..

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=54383

[Larry Gibson]

I don't use cotton for several reasons. I have for many, many years found dacron (polyester fill) to be the best "filler".

I don't use the dacron filler or a wad either with the fast to medium burning "fast" pistol /shotgun type powders. I find a fast burning powder that is fast enough to ignite and burn efficiently at the velocity I want.

For use in rifle cases with slow “fast” burning powders (4227, 4759, 5744, 4198, etc.) up through the slow burning powders that give around 80% or less loading density I use a dacron filler between the powder and base of the bullet. The “dacron” is polyester fill as commonly found in pillows and toys. It also comes in sheets called “batting” . It can be obtained very reasonably at most any fabric store.

The dacron batting comes in various thicknesses. I prefer that which is about 5/8" thick. My wife recently bought me 10 yards which will give many, many thousands of cast bullet loads. With this current batch of batting I cut it initially across the width into strips about 3/4" wide. I then "eyeball" cut 1/2" wide chunks which is close to 3/4 gr.

A smaller chunk is cut for 1/2 gr and larger for a larger amount. I've cut some chunks that weight 1/2, 3/4, 1, 1 1/4 and 1 1/2 grs and have them in a "snack" baggie stuck on a poster board above my loading bench for quick reference when I need to cut new chunks. The batting will run thin and thick throughout the sheet so I again just "eyeball it" based on the thickness of the batting when cutting the chunks.

Pretty extensive tests have demonstrated that the weight of the filler does not have to be exact, only close. What is important is that there is enough so that it “fills" the space between powder and bullet. A little too much hurts nothing but too little poses problems. That's why I have the different size "chunks" so I can use the right size for the case capacity I am filling. For example; with most medium burning powders (3031, 4895, 4064) in and '06 to function an M1 a 3/4 gr dacron filler is about right. With slower powders that give a higher loading density like 4831 a 1/2 gr filler is about right.

I use a section of .22 cal cleaning rod in cartridges of .30 - .375 cal to push the Dacron chunk inside the case just so it is all in. The 6 to 10" section gives plenty to hold onto and sufficient "feel". Merely hold the chunk of dacron over the case mouth and shove it in with the rod. Sometimes it takes a couple three pokes to ensure all is inside the case mouth. I poke the chunks in until the are at the botom of the neck or at least all in the case. It doesn’t matter. What you want is to let the base of the bullet finish pushing it down and adding any compression. Thus I do not push it down on the powder but let the bullet do that when the bullet is seated. Using the right size chunk of dacron this method then provides a "filler" in the air space between the powder and base of the bullet.

A small length of coat hanger works for the .22-7mm cartridges and an unsharpened pencil works well for .45 cals.

Larry Gibson

[barrabruce]

Thanks Nrut amd Larry.
Great stuff just what I need to know.

Couldn't find a book in the gunshops at all on cast shooting last week in the big smoke.(all of 2 shops)
Must be a good one somewhere on all this stuff then.
Any suggestions which covers all of this important stuff properly???


Thanks
Bruce

[Larry Gibson]

Thanks Nrut amd Larry.
Great stuff just what I need to know.

Couldn't find a book in the gunshops at all on cast shooting last week in the big smoke.(all of 2 shops)
Must be a good one somewhere on all this stuff then.
Any suggestions which covers all of this important stuff properly???


Thanks
Bruce

Not sure there is a book that covers all information but I always recommend every caster have, read and reference Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook at a minimum.

Larry Gibson

[Bent Ramrod]

Get JoeB330 (Joseph Brennan)'s book, "Cast Bullets for Beginner and Expert," second edition, 2007. You can order a paper copy or CD by mail or download it from the Net. There should be instructions and links for ordering somewhere on this site. Almost 500 pages of everything on cast boolits, including a section on fillers and wads. A lot of the subject matter is the recent lore from the savants on this site, which makes it about as up-to-date as such a reference can get.

I have about every book on reloading, casting, swaging and ammunition making there is and Joe's compendium is right up there with the best of all of them. It doesn't have much in the way of specific cartridge loading data; for that, you need the Lyman, Lee, etc., handbooks.

I use Kapok rather than Dacron. Basically I fluff out a little tuft of the stuff into a 1/4" to 1/2" ball and push it into the case down on top of the powder with the eraser end of a pencil or a dowel that fits in the case neck. The stuff should expand back out enough to contact the sides of the case and hold the powder against the primer. It does not have to fill the entire empty volume of the case.

[barrabruce]

Thanks bent one I found the site. Can't seem to find where to order the cd but can read the download chapters. All is good thanks.

[runfiverun]

joe posts on here all the time you can p.m. him if you really want his "book".
or you could just ask q's here as you come on them.
joe's book and opinions here do differ.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

What goes unsaid here is that every bit o'fluff of all these fibrous things are nearly all guesswork as to weight, volume, efficiency at controlling powder migration, etc. Only fluff sheeting(batting) or TP in sheets readily adapt well to measurement, and "stuffing".

BvT

[454PB]

I don't use fillers much, but when I do, I use Kapok. I got enough out of an old life preserver (what's now called a personal floatation device) to last the rest of my life.

I do pretty much what Larry described, except I use hemostats with long straight jaws.

[jhrosier]

When I use cotton or dacron for filler, I just lay a piece on top of the case neck and poke it in with an allen wrench.
Seems to work OK and doesn't bunch the filler up.

Jack

[barrabruce]

runfiverun ..... joe's book and opinions here do differ.

Well I'll be...(read the "throat fit" article and ended up confused in the end on what to call things )

By hopefully Monday I will have fired a few j..stuff out of me 30-30 and see how well I can tune it to shoot.
Hopefully have it sorted to minute of barn door or less

Then I will have fireformed cases to measure and can do a chamber measurements of the throat , lead , ball seat ,freebore,forcing cone, " stuff between the case and the full riflling".

Why I first asked this question is I wanna load a few subsonic rounds in the 30-30 for quiet short range fixer , plus its something Iv'e read about and wanna try!!!
There seems to a lot of conflicting data published around.
I have got some Alliant Unique powder.
But if I have to go below 9-10 grains I think I'll have to use filler won't I??

I won't be trying it till I get a mould thou!!!
Just wait there'll be so many more question here...someone 'll go mad and drive across OZ to sort me out for once and for all...before I send 'em completely nuts!!!!

Like the ideas and ways described here!!!!
Thanks
Barra

[pulaski]

I,ve allways used muffin mix to top off my 45lc cartridges . Used it with smokeless and it really tightened up groups .

[Larry Gibson]

barrabruce

Well I'll be...(read the "throat fit" article and ended up confused in the end on what to call things )

That's because there is a lot of misinformation out there and all Joe did was restate it.

By hopefully Monday I will have fired a few j..stuff out of me 30-30 and see how well I can tune it to shoot.
Hopefully have it sorted to minute of barn door or less

Then I will have fireformed cases to measure and can do a chamber measurements of the throat , lead , ball seat ,freebore,forcing cone, " stuff between the case and the full riflling".

The "forcing cone" is that part of the where the bullet enters the "ball seat/freebore (the "ball seat/freebore" may be totally lacking on some chambers and very long on others). The "leade" is the beginning of the rifling. The "throat" encompasses alll three in a rifle/pistol chamber and just the first two in a revolver's cylinder.

Why I first asked this question is I wanna load a few subsonic rounds in the 30-30 for quiet short range fixer , plus its something Iv'e read about and wanna try!!!
There seems to a lot of conflicting data published around.
I have got some Alliant Unique powder.
But if I have to go below 9-10 grains I think I'll have to use filler won't I??

You are referring to "cat's sneeze" loads, squib loads or have been reading Paco Kelly. Your load of Unique is going to be to loud. Unique is really not a good powder for what you are suggesting. You need a much faster burning powder that is easy to ignite without the use of wads or fillers. Suggest you get some Bullseye and use it. In the 30-30 2.7 gr of Bullseye under a 90 gr Hornady swaged .32 SWC or a cast Lee TL314-90-SWC will run about 800 fps, is pretty quiet and is a good "fixer". Soft lead heavier cast bullets (the 311041 cast of soft lead is a very good one) over 2-3 gr of Bullseye is also very quiet and a good "fixer".

I won't be trying it till I get a mould thou!!!
Just wait there'll be so many more question here...someone 'll go mad and drive across OZ to sort me out for once and for all...before I send 'em completely nuts!!!!

Like the ideas and ways described here!!!!
Thanks

No problem on the questions, keep asking.

Larry Gibson

[barrabruce]

Been a while since I first asked and got replies.
Think I have the Jist of it now.

Going to try some loads.

Couldn't get any thick quilting stuff abut this is about right I think doubled over.
I stuffed a few in cases and have "Compression" light but noticeable.

IS THIS SORTDA RIGHT????

I don't wanna hurt me gun or me.
Just in case ...I can always pull the bullets and do 'em right....fix'n the aftermath may be different.

Bruce

[longbow]

I hadn't seen this post before or would have responded.

I pour my filler in.

I have tried several things (not all but several) and found that partially due to laziness and partially because I found lots of information on cereal fillers, I use COW and a Lee scoop to add it.

So far I seem to be getting accuracy on par with gas check loads for the Lyman 314299 when using it without gas checks over filler. I am also getting equivalent accuracy with two plain base boolits over filler.

Last groups ran about 2" at 50 yards from a Lee Enfield No. 5 with stock sights and old eyes. Several shots in each group were clustered tightly together but with a "flyer" or two as well. I am getting a scope mounted so I can sort out what is shooter error and what is boolit/load error.

Still working on it but I am quite happy with the cereal fillers. Many do not like them which is fine. You do have to work up loads as they will increase pressure. Same applies to cotton or other fillers though maybe not as much since they compress a lot.

If you want to try cereal or shotgun buffer fillers take a look at these two articles:

http://www.303british.com/id37.html
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting...ller/index.asp

They just might give you some ideas and options.

Longbow

[35remington]

Pulling off a 0.2 grain tuft for my 25-20, which is about half the volume of your pictured case in the post above. Looks to me like you're using rather much.



Poking it into the case with a blunt tipped, standard slotted screwdriver. There's no need to ball it up or use as thick an amount as you've got above. Dacron is both long fibered and springy, and will hold powder in place despite the fact that the powder outweighs the dacron by a large amount. Just make sure you poke the dacron into the case so it fills the case completely between powder and bullet. Normally I hold the case vertically when I do this; the angle was to make a better picture.

[barrabruce]

Thnaks 35 remington.
I'll go out and retify my mistake.
Cheers

Bruce

[Gerry N.]

Barra lad,

I use a .310 round ball and the smallest Lee dipper(.3 CC) of Bullseye in my H&R Topper .30-30. That rifle has a 22" barrel and with that load makes barely enough noise to hear. Actually quieter than my Gamo Delta .177 air rifle. I drilled out the flash hole in five .30-30 cases and spun a spent primer soldered to a finish nail in the primer pockets to open them enough to be able to re-prime with only a 1/4" dowel as a tool. To ID the cases I filed some nicks into the rim.

Anyway, at 10 or 11 yards .3cc of Bullseye powering a .310 round ball will bury it two or three calibers into the end grain of a douglas fir round. I know that isn't a very scientific measure, but its what I have. I don't use a filler, I just point the muzzle up to put the powder to the back of the cartridge.

I suppose it would be lethal for racoons. I know it is for 'possums. Man, those suckers stink! Even the coyotes won't eat 'em, I have to double wrap the carcasses in garbage bags and put 'em in the trash collection.

Small town politics can be fun. The missus is running for city council. We were having lunch at a local greasy spoon when the Mayor and his wife came in. We got to talking about shooting and I told him about the Topper and my cat sneeze loads so he came over to the house later on and tried some off the back porch. Now the Chief of Police wants to try it. I've been trying for over 20 years to get a munincipal firing range in this burg, this might be the start of it.

Gerry N.
AKA Nordicthug

[barrabruce]

Well I had a nother go at it and pulled the bullets.
Ended up casting another 2-300 boolits this arvo.

See what happens at the range this weekend.

Thanks for the links longbow.

Gerry....!!!!!
Might be the start of more trouble for you.
You may become the 'El Presidento plus cheif lacky of the range and have to mow the lawn during the week or some such.
Animals are off bounds on our range as its in a state park.
Me 'ol topper's going better than it was for a start.
Mine is the skinnier barrell. Had rough tool marks in front of the throat when I got her but brand new.
I lapped it a bit and took a bit off the start of the throat in mine "cos it had a sharp shoulder.
Knocked the groups down from 1 1/2 " at 100 yrds to a breath over 1".
Not as good as some but its getting there. The washer under the forearm stopped the barrell walking and it'll shoot round groups even when hot.
May try a bit more lapping but its good now that I put though a 100 or so PP loads though 'er. Still cant get it to get under about 1 1/2 " at 100 ydrs with em and they spiral outta control at 150. But I think its me crappy size die and bullets not been to concentric thats the issue. The 300 yrd gong will get a caning again this week end.
Having much joy with my widdle carbine.
Thanks fellas.
Cheers
Bruce.