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Thread: Pure lead in a 45-70?

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub
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    Pure lead in a 45-70?

    Can I shoot pure lead in my 45-70 if I keep the speed down to around 1100 - 1200 fps?
    I will be casting a 405 bullet.
    Thanks
    Mike

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    ANeat's Avatar
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    My biggest concern would be if the bullet was big enough (diameter) Most molds are made to drop the "correct" size with a harder alloy.

    Going with pure lead would drop a bullet somewhat smaller diameter.


    If the fit was good I wouldnt hesitate to try it.

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy tcrocker's Avatar
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    I use a NEI .458-440-GC #346. Iuse wheel weights and lube with Johnson's past wax. With no Problem. They come out .460 and weigh 464gr. I use a gas check and have them going about 1600 fps. They smack real good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  4. #4
    Boolit Master at Heavens Range Bob Krack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeh3 View Post
    Can I shoot pure lead in my 45-70 if I keep the speed down to around 1100 - 1200 fps?
    I will be casting a 405 bullet.
    Mike,
    If your diameter is large enough (groove diameter + .002 or so) and you have a good lube - that's another subject by itself - I would think that 1200 MIGHT be OK as an upper limit. I would probably try to stay at or below 1000 fps were it me. 'course if it leads, clean it and slow down or increase hardness.

    Your mileage may vary. This advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

    Bob
    I was always taught to respect my elders, but it's getting harder and harder to find any!

    Μολὼν λαβέ; approximate Classical Greek pronunciation [molɔ̀ːn labé], Modern Greek [moˈlon laˈve]), meaning "Come and take them" is a classical expression of defiance reportedly by King Leonidas in response to the Persian army's demand that the Spartans surrender their weapons at the Battle of Thermopylae.

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Bob's answer can't be spoken better.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    A very unscientific answer is that Lee 457-405-HP lapped out to cast .460 with WW shoots well enough for woods hunting when cast of X ray sheeting, lubed with LLA, and loaded over 13 grains of Unique. Someone else is going to have to work out the numbers.
    Sometimes you gotta wonder if democracy is such a good idea.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master

    MtGun44's Avatar
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    Well, pure lead worked pretty well for the Army in the 1873 era. . . . . .

    Ask the Indians how well it worked.


    Bill
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  8. #8
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    Mikeh3, A lot of 45-70 shooters shoot the gun with 30-1 alloy which is lead and the right amount of tin to reach the BNH of 8.5-9. There is nothing else. So if you have some lead; add tin and cast away!!
    Shooter of the "HOLY BLACK" SASS 81802 AKA FAIRSHAKE; NRA ; BOLD; WARTHOG;Deadwood Marshal;Bayou Bounty Hunter; So That his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat; 44 WCF filled to the top, 210 gr. bullet

  9. #9
    Boolit Master pdawg_shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeh3 View Post
    Can I shoot pure lead in my 45-70 if I keep the speed down to around 1100 - 1200 fps?
    I will be casting a 405 bullet.
    Thanks
    Mike
    Sure you can. You can go up to around 2200fps, IF you paper patch them.

  10. #10
    Boolit Bub
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    Thanks for all the replies.
    I'll give it a try.
    I have a lot of pure lead and want to find a use for it.
    Thanks,
    Mike

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by MtGun44 View Post
    Well, pure lead worked pretty well for the Army in the 1873 era. . . . . .

    Ask the Indians how well it worked.


    Bill
    The military M1873 45-70 bullets were a lead/tin alloy, generally in the 30/1 to 20/1 range. As a matter of fact Frankford Arsenal, after considerable testing, settled on a 16/1 lead/tin alloy for the 500 gr bullet.

    Larry Gibson

  12. #12
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    Tin does not add enough hardness to worry about but it sure does make casting easier with pure lead.
    Pure with a little tin for a perfect boolit works just fine in a rifle and kills animals better too.
    Just expand the brass so as not to size the boolit when seating. If you need a little case tension for a lever gun, start with a larger boolit so it is still over bore size after seating.
    I have no idea why .457" molds are still made when it is hard to find a bore that small.

  13. #13
    In Remembrance
    montana_charlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44man View Post
    I have no idea why .457" molds are still made when it is hard to find a bore that small.
    Are you referring to the Lee moulds?
    My understanding is that a Lee mould identified as "457132" means the bullet (cast in their standard alloy) can be sized down to .457" without enough deformation to be considered as 'damage'.

    Most other mould makers state that bullets will drop at 2 to 3 thousandths over the stated diameter when cast from the alloy which that maker uses as his 'standard'.

    CM
    Retired...TWICE. Now just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by montana_charlie View Post
    Are you referring to the Lee moulds?
    My understanding is that a Lee mould identified as "457132" means the bullet (cast in their standard alloy) can be sized down to .457" without enough deformation to be considered as 'damage'.

    Most other mould makers state that bullets will drop at 2 to 3 thousandths over the stated diameter when cast from the alloy which that maker uses as his 'standard'.

    CM
    I have had to send many Lee molds back for being too small even with my hard alloy. Lyman and RCBS molds all have been too small, .457" and smaller. I have never been lucky getting a Lyman cut with a new cherry. I can't count the molds I have lapped out.
    Only custom molds and Rapine molds have come through at the right sizes for me.
    Lyman uses number 2 alloy as a baseline but even an alloy with more antimony will not grow large enough after aging. I hate to buy molds!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check