Stuck screw removal ??

[Denver]

My brother just picked up a nice 1949 vintage Marlin 336SC that's in good shape mechanically, but the previous owner obviously didn't spend a lot of time cleaning or oiling the poor thing. I'm stripping it down for a good cleaning and eventual reblue and stock refinishing. Anyway I got as far as removing the action screws except for the hammer screw that just won't budge. It appears rusted in as some of the other screws had rust on the threads. I been soaking it with Kroil over the last 24 hours or so, but so far haven't had any luck with it. Don't know if applying heat would be wise. Maybe drilling it and using an easy out? There's only about a half dozen threads on the end that screws into the sidewall of the action. Any other methods or suggestions appreciated.

Thanks, Denver

[dubber123]

A little heat with a propane torch around the threaded side of the action with the occasional squirt of Kroil wouldn't bother me at all. Another trick is to fit the screwdriver in the slot, and give it a couple good raps. This will sometimes shock the corrosion loose. Good luck. Let us know how you make out.

[Bret4207]

From thr4 "Shop Tips" sticky just above this one-

Gotta fresh cup o'joe and I'm going to try to think of a couple things here-

Removing frozen screws-

1. The screwhead/bolthead is in good shape-
A. Find a screwdriver that FITS THE SLOT (very close fit end to end and in the slot of the screw) grind or file the screwdriver to fit if needed. With Phillips head/Torx head/Allen head you just find the one that fits best and maybe grind/file a bit off the end for a really tight fit. Set the screwdriver bit tightly into the slot and strike it 4 or 5 times with a hammer, a plastic mallet, brass or copper hammer, anything under 10 oz. or so. Don't try a 16 oz. claw hammer on a 6-48 screw because you can drive the screw through the threads. IOW- use an appropriate sized striking instrument. Try this several times and se if that doesn't work.

B. A doesn't work- Try turning the screw "FORWARD" or into the work. This is simple but a lot of times it works. If it turns into the work even a bit, just rock it back and forth a bit and it may come out. If it moves at all apply a solvent/oil/penetrant. Work the screw with the oil on it and it may back right out. This also covers the previously unknown "LEFT HAND THREAD". I worked for hours on a payloader once trying to remove a lug nut. An old drunk guy, ( he was REALLY good at drinking), asked me if I'd thought of it being a left hand thread. He may have been a drunk, but he wasn't a stupid drunk.

2. Add in here that the screwhead is buggered up already.

C. A and B don't work. Now we go to heat. If someone lock-tited the screw in it amy well resist all the solvents, etc. Get a soldering gun/iron and get it up to heat. Leave whatever oil, etc is on the screw head as it will keep th solder from sticking. Make sure the soldering gun/iron tip has a "wet" look to it. Thats melted solder and is yoour heat trasfer source. A dry tip will take forever to heat you article. Apply the tip to the screw for maybe 45 seconds or a minute. You may see/smell the oil you used spitting and smoking. Thats good, it means the heat is transfering. Once your godd ol' common sense says it's time put the soldering gun/iron down wherte it won't start a fire and immediately try the screw. You can also do this with a very small flame out of one of those micro torches but you chance over heating things and scorching any nearby wood and loosing the blueing in the area.

C2- For buggered Torx/Allen/Socket head or hex head screws and bolts. Vicegrips, over size Torx/Allen head wrenchs, driving a flat tip screwdriver bit into the hole, E-Z outs. At this point you're less concerned with recovering the screw and more concerned with geting the darn thing out. E-Z outs rarely work IMHO. For socket or Allen heads try driving a slightly oversize Torx bit into the hole. Works better than any E-Z out I've used. Almost always works. For hex heads you're into Vicegrips, those sockets specificaly designed for removing rounded off bolts heads, I forget the names, Sears has them, or even welding another nut onto the bolthead so you can get a good grip. I doubt you'll use that on a gun, but maybe on a car or tractor. Works on busted studs and such. Sometimes a flat blade screw driver can be driven into a phillips slot, and I mean driven into it, and it will work. Othertimes you can chisel or Dremel cut a new slot in a screw and get it. Obviously you have to use extreme care for the surrounding metal/wood or you'll make a real mess. Trust me, I've done it a thousand times! This is probably a good time to step back and stare at the problem for 15 minutes or so. Have a sandwich and a drink and give the screw a minute or two to think about repenting and backing right out. Oddly enough it sometimes seems to work. There may be gremlins hanging onto the threads that give up after some in-activity, I don't know. It works sometimes, thats all I can say. You may have a brainstorm at this point and discover how to get it out too. Don't go to a "bigger hammer" at this point unless you can control the ol' temper.

D. A,B and C don't work after repeated attempts. By now any Lock-tite type product will have given up the ghost from the heat and any rust would have been handled by the solvent/heat/tapping. We're into metal on metal galling most likely. You've got a cross threaded, cockeyed jewel on your hands. That or your into the infamous broken and boogered screwhead/bolt head. Here are your options-

1. Take it to a gunsmith/machine shop and have them remove the part.

2. If you have the ability and confidence AND the proper tools you can try drilling the screw/bolt out on your own. We're talking a drill press and a good vice mounted to the drill press, center drills for starting, accurate center punching, sharp undersize drill bits for the hole, good cutting oils, and the knowledge of when to STOP. Left hand drill bits (yeah, they're real) may work here and bring the screw right out, or they may not. Worth a try if you have them. If you are thinking you'd do it, then you probably already have the tools. Read Brownells "Gunsmiths Kinks" , all 4 volumes, to find a bunch of methods to do this and a lot of tricks to make it easier. If this sounds like certain disaster, then go to the gunsmith/machine shop. Just be honest and admit you don't want to risk screwing up the item big time and that you don't have the equipment to do this. It doesn't mean you're not a man or that you're a failure. It means you are smart enough to stop before you loose a bunch of $$$$$.

[Denver]

Thanks Dubber. I think I'll give it another 24 hrs with the Kroil and then try your ideas if it still won't break loose.

[dubber123]

You may try some of Brets ideas first. I went right for the heat, because you said you intended on re-blueing any ways. It takes a good bit of heat to booger up blue, but if you try.....

If you are tooled up for it, and the screw passes through the action, drilling the threaded end out will many times release enough tension to bust it loose. At least it sounds like you still have a screw slot left to work with!

The last one I had to work on was a tiny, (less than 1/8" diameter) screw broken off flush up inside a T/C Contender. Managed to drill a hole lengthwise of it, and tap a small allen wrench into it to get it out. Whew!

[largom]

BRETs suggestion of the properly fitted screw driver and small hammer has worked 98% of the time for me.
Larry

[waksupi]

Since you are planning on a re-blue, I would also suggest using the electrolysis method of rust removal. For a screw, it may have to go for a couple weeks, but it will eventually desolve the rust.

[MtGun44]

Bret,

Your post is well worth being a sticky. Extremely well said and thought out, matches my thoughts on
the subject very well. Left handed drill bits work extremely well in my experience. My Dad bought me
a full set years ago and they are reserved for this application only.

Bill

[Cap'n Morgan]

Here's a trick I use when removing stubborn screws from side by side shotguns:

Use a screw bit for a cordless screwdriver and grind the tip to an exact fit.

Clamp the bit in a lathe chuck.

Put a drill chuck in the tailstock and clamp a brass or hardwood dowel in the chuck.

Hold the action perpendicularly to the chuck so the screw slot matches the screw bit , and bring up the dowel against the other side of the action.
Now you can carefully loosen the screw by rocking the action up and down. Do not try to unscrew it more than a 1/4 turn without loosening the tailstock pressure.

The trick is, of course, that the blade of the screwdriver cannot slip out of the slot. If you don't have a lathe you can use a drill press, but then you may need an extra pair of hands.

[Buckshot]

............Some gunsmiths and machine shops have small electric discharge guns that will eat most of the screw out.

.............Buckshot

[Denver]

Got it! Tried the screwdriver/hammer approach first, but no luck there. Maybe because it's a recessed head screw and the underside of the head is against the metal on the side opposite of the threads. Anyway, I used a propane torch and put the heat to the threaded end of it for a minute or so, and it broke loose fairly easily after that. I was more concerned about affecting the metal than the finish with the heat, but as it turns out there wasn't enough transfer to the rest of the action to matter. The screw survived the ordeal unscathed also.

Thanks Bret, Dubber, and all for the help. This is a great forum.

Denver

[dubber123]

Good deal! Please post a before and after pic of the re-finishing if you can. I love being able to make an old gun look new again.

[pcmacd]

For allen or torx heads, they make cherries that you pound into the tool opening, put on a wrench, and there it is. Never failed me on scope rings, bases and such. I bought mine 30 years ago so I cn't tell you where I got them.

[Scrounge]

Thanks Dubber. I think I'll give it another 24 hrs with the Kroil and then try your ideas if it still won't break loose.

Why be in a hurry? Soak it down good with Kroil, or WD-40, give it a twist each way, and let it sit for a few hours. Repeat. Eventually it will come out.

[725]

Glad you had success. Of the many ways, I've put a soldering iron on the screw head after multiple penetrant applications and it was enough of a source of heat to do the trick. Whatever works.

[tankgunner59]

For future reference I bought a small butane torch, I believe it was at Harbor Freight IIRC. It has a small pencil tip flame that can be easily directed at a very small point on any piece of material.